ASHP or MAINS GAS?

[Jimbob]

Have you got a heat meter to see what you're actually producing?

Definitely starts adding up when comparing to oil I must admit.

 

[eaton]

No don't see need for it, end of day you just want to know run cost. I can work out cop at any time using a calc

 

[Jimbob]

Worth looking at though, we've got a Panasonic setup with meters and heat meters, give a better indication of how efficient it is rather than just averaging with a COP factor. And it could be that you may require a heat meter to get any future RHI payments

 

[eaton]

I offered mcs to send me one they said no! Said ok sod you then

 

[peteheat]

My advice to the OP is insulate very well forget todays regulations and double up if possible, draught proofing, good quality windows screen doors etc.

Top quality heating controls especially for UFH, preferably a thermostat in every room back to a manifold as your heating control centre.

Now you have a foundation for the future, today you fit a quality gas boiler, however you leave the pipes in place to fit your heat pump to so the installation cost is not crazy.

From my experience the majority of failures with heat pumps are caused by salesmen who don't understand their product or construction in general so they sold them as a "one solution suits all".

The new way of thinking should be future proofing our homes, from what I can see there is no free heating system coming along in the near future and our traditional fuels (even wood) are getting more expensive be it gamblers on the stock exchanges, political turmoil or the fact that as gas and oil get more expensive homeowners just won't be able to afford them.

 

[Howsie]

An air-source heat pump is a good choice. Yes it is a more expensive little bit but well worth.

Cricket and rice?

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks to everyone who responded! We opted for a gas boiler with a solar thermal. UFH downstairs, rads upstairs. Very effective.

 

[Phil_Plumb]

excellent choice, the solar thermal will heat up the water in the cylinder by x amount of degrees C that the required energy from the boiler will be less to heat up the cylinder to the correct temp.

Saving gas and saving energy using a tried and trusted tech!

That being said, if gas keeps going the way it is, my boiler will be coming out and all 3 out of 4 fireplaces will be opened up (frontroom already done) i will put in a back boiler with pump to an indirect cylinder to provide my HW via a 3 port valve for the rads.

have a plentiful supply of free logs anyway!

 

[Steve Williams]

Oh and a woodburner in the front lounge and a rainwater harvester for toilets and washing machine to up our Eco-credentials, the water tank only went in in May do is now nearly empty, doh!

 

[Dickie]

Not having read all the posts, but a good few. None of you so called ASHP experts have mentioned the COP of these units!! Also, if you had any small insight as to how refrigeration actually works you'd know that volume circulation is required for the optimum output & efficiency, so LLHs are not worth fitting, a buffer tank is always required.

A ASHP would never be as cheap to run as a modulating Nat Gas condensing boiler. OP don't listen to the ex-used car salesmen, it's all mince they talk.

 

[eaton]

Shows how much you know! You don't need buffers or llh on most systems! I've fortunately got a few units that have over 12 months worth of running costs and they're all smashing the oil running costs! Mine at home is actually running my 4 bed detached 1970s house cheaper than I ran my old 1995 3 bed semi on natural gas, afraid you can't argue with figures.

 

[eaton]

Also never sold a car in my life, left school at 16 and did 5 year apprentice inc city and guilds, shame not many bother nowadays. Just like the story I've heard of a biomass quote on a 3 bed insulated semi detached 21kw! More like 6-10kw max. The sharks will be swimming now the rhi is out. Also turned down 2 ashp vs gas this week as it just wouldn't pay. Got one as they want one full stop and have pv so each to their own I suppose.

 

[Reg Man]

Shows how much you know! You don't need buffers or llh on most systems! I've fortunately got a few units that have over 12 months worth of running costs and they're all smashing the oil running costs! Mine at home is actually running my 4 bed detached 1970s house cheaper than I ran my old 1995 3 bed semi on natural gas, afraid you can't argue with figures.

Me to! 4bed 1960's house on ASHP Total utility bill cheaper than total N gas and electric bill on previous smaller 4 bed 1990's timber framed house. Figures speak for them self. I was at first very sceptical about ASHP, but I can't knock it having lived with it for two years.

 

[Dickie]

But any figures you chaps are giving are for the running costs of installations of ASHPs. You don't know the running cost of the same property with a HE modulating gas boiler, or a correctly installed system with a ASHP - including a buffer tank.

There's no way a ASHP, even an inverting CO2 one, would touch a Nat Gas modulating boiler. Blue Flame Rules!! Get over it Greenwashers & tree huggers!!
LOL!!

 

[Reg Man]

But any figures you chaps are giving are for the running costs of installations of ASHPs. You don't know the running cost of the same property with a HE modulating gas boiler, or a correctly installed system with a ASHP - including a buffer tank.

There's no way a ASHP, even an inverting CO2 one, would touch a Nat Gas modulating boiler. Blue Flame Rules!! Get over it Greenwashers & tree huggers!!
LOL!!

Only know that my last house had full NAT gas HE system boiler with all controls including separate zones for upstairs/downstairs, optimiser the lot and my utility bills are now cheaper in a larger property with less insulation factors with an ASHP. I do admit that they are less convenient to use than a gas boiler, but I am pleasantly surprised by its efficiency, My only other option is OIL or LPG, so happy days for the ASHP.

 

[Dickie]

Will you still be singing the praises of your ASHP when it hit -14degC next Winter Reg old son?? When your HP has a COP of -3 & your gaffe is freezing cold?
Come back & bum your load then.

 

[CES]

I see the misinformation squad are in tonight then...

 

[Dickie]

I see the misinformation squad are in tonight then...

Reading this thread mate, they've been in here for days!

 

[Reg Man]

It worked fine all last winter with 3 weeks of snow on the ground.

 

[Dickie]

It worked fine all last winter with 3 weeks of snow on the ground.

Do you know perchance what these weeks costs you in Leccy Reg??

 

[Dickie]

Also never sold a car in my life, left school at 16 and did 5 year apprentice inc city and guilds, shame not many bother nowadays. Just like the story I've heard of a biomass quote on a 3 bed insulated semi detached 21kw! More like 6-10kw max. The sharks will be swimming now the rhi is out. Also turned down 2 ashp vs gas this week as it just wouldn't pay. Got one as they want one full stop and have pv so each to their own I suppose.

I'm pleased to hear it mate in every regard.

 

[Reg Man]

Can't give you figures for the cold weeks but total electric for the year £1,400. Thinking of investing in some PV panels, think I can get about 20 panels on the south elevation of my roof, also have a wood burner and unlimited supply of logs in my woods.

 

[eaton]

Can't give you figures for the cold weeks but total electric for the year £1,400. Thinking of investing in some PV panels, think I can get about 20 panels on the south elevation of my roof, also have a wood burner and unlimited supply of logs in my woods.

Only put mine in in mid march but as I said I'm logging daily so have accurate data for 3 weeks of snow and following month of very cold weather, 3 weeks with snow cost £76 April was £74, may £39, June £15.97 so far this month £4.43 If anyone goes to my Facebook page I keep updated graphs posted on there, Id expect a cost of £3-4 per day in severe cold weather from what I've seen. And I'm on course for bettering running cost than I did in last house which was newer, smaller and on ng

 

[SafeGasInstall]

are you trying to tell me that gas boilers are totally silent if so why does my old worcester combi wake me up at night when the pump kicks in for no reason, at least with a heat pump they are outside and the noise is barely audible even when standing next to them

you should know .....you are a plumber lol

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I would like to tank all for your input here its been interesting to read .... please give more information about a ASHP as what is so much to know about there installation ? I have never worked on one just been to a property where Mick aka "unguided" (was a member here ) worked and he showed me the installation and we had a cup of coffee and a good 3h of chat about them ! Did not see any rocket science there tbh .....
I just would love to receive more info about ASHP , and if you have one installed somewhere or you are in progress doing it I would love to come along and take part of the install (for free) ! I am to book my self with WB for there 3 days training for the ASHP but would love to see it in action before I go there

Good postes there Dickies