BBC Watchdog - British Gas

[Doodlebug]

German company who make quite advanced boilers. Not really marketed here.

It did have similarities with a Boulter Buderus.

 

[tamz]

Something similar range of stuff including commercial and air handling

 

[Doodlebug]

What part of Scotland do you work tamz? I was working in Aberdeen back in March for 4 weeks, loved it.

 

[Tap dancer]

I made a mistake, the Potterton was the boiler in previous house.

My current house has a Gloworm Fuelsaver 80F.

BG have always kept it going for me, although advise me to get it replaced with a fuel-efficient one.

But at my age, I will probably not live long enough to recoup the capital expense by the amount of gas I will save!

 

[tamz]

Mainly east central but anywhere really if there is money to be made. Aberdeen is a good place to work away. Plenty stuff going on up that way. Last time i was up there was about 2 years ago now when they were building union square (the centre across from the harbour).

 

[Millsy 82]

Is it a floor standing boiler? You say it's 25 years old, did you know the average lifespan of a boiler is 15 years old? And British Gas didn't make that up. Best advise is to replace your 25 year old very low efficiency boiler with a modern efficient boiler. The chances are, you can't get many parts for the boiler, but saying that, they don't make boilers that last that long anymore. You could get another 10 years out of your boiler, who knows but that's a chance that you take. Experience tells me that when boilers do break, it's more than likely in the winter months. I hope your boiler goes on and on and gets you through many more winters. Good luck.

Thats the reason I am not a big fan of BG

How can you give best advice of replace the boiler and say some of the parts are not available when most parts on that boiler are ore than likely widely available. It scares the customer into thinking that if it breaks down in a cold snap then they will be without heat for weeks until they can get another boiler.

I do sell quite a few boilers working for the company I work for I dont get any thing for it and I dont do the hard sell on them just give them the options of repairing or replacing the boiler. But if I come to the likes of a Baxi Bermuda 25 years old I will never say my best advice is to replace it as that is not the best advice in that situation.

 

[tamz]

I made a mistake, the Potterton was the boiler in previous house.

My current house has a Gloworm Fuelsaver 80F.

BG have always kept it going for me, although advise me to get it replaced with a fuel-efficient one.

But at my age, I will probably not live long enough to recoup the capital expense by the amount of gas I will save!

A fuel saver will probably last longer than you as long as it doesn't rot. Reliable easy to fix boiler. But saying that i once had a capri which was pretty reliable too but i have a land rover now not because it costs less to run but because i wanted one.

 

[Tap dancer]

I think every part of the boiler has been replaced over the years, so it is "new" really ie much less than its actual 25 years.

 

[tamz]

It is the flue that will kill it. That is still the original and will rot at some point.

 

[Doodlebug]

Thats the reason I am not a big fan of BG

How can you give best advice of replace the boiler and say some of the parts are not available when most parts on that boiler are ore than likely widely available. It scares the customer into thinking that if it breaks down in a cold snap then they will be without heat for weeks until they can get another boiler.

I do sell quite a few boilers working for the company I work for I dont get any thing for it and I dont do the hard sell on them just give them the options of repairing or replacing the boiler. But if I come to the likes of a Baxi Bermuda 25 years old I will never say my best advice is to replace it as that is not the best advice in that situation.

How can you say it's not best advise to replace a boiler that's 25 years old? If I had a boiler 25 years old in my house, I'd replace it. I stated that you could get another 10 years out of it, who knows how long it will last, knowone does. But if I told a customer to stick with it, I wouldn't want to be going back in the middle of a very cold winter and saying "I'm really sorry mrs Jones, but I can't fix this boiler now as its so old and I can't get the heat exchanger which is leaking all over the kitchen and as its now our busiest time, unfortunately you have got a wait for a new boiler" I know what the reply would be from the customer, "you told me not to worry about replacing it" yes I know I did Mrs Jones but I never knew this was going to happen.
think about it mate, I'm not telling the customer they have to buy a boiler from British Gas I'm just explaining that my honest advise would be to start to think about replacing a boiler that's 25 years old, the customer wants my expert advise so I give it, simple.

 

[Doodlebug]

How old should your boiler be before you replace it? | This is Money

 

[Doodlebug]

The Energy Saving Trust estimate that a 15-year old conventional boiler may only be 60% efficient at converting fuel into heat; this means that for every £100 you spend on heating bills, £40 pays for wasted fuel.

When is the best time to upgrade?

As a general guide, boilers over 15 years of age are likely to be the least energy efficient and most difficult to source parts for if they should break down unexpectedly. Therefore it might make sense to replace an old boiler sooner rather than later.

[DLMURL]http://www.domgen.com/newslines/issue_2/boiler.html[/DLMURL]

 

[Millsy 82]

The chances are, you can't get many parts for the boiler,

So why not just say you cant a heat exchanger for it when you can more than likely still get the gas valve, thermostat and thermo couple and probably still be able to get hold of burner

 

[Doodlebug]

The chances are, you can't get many parts for the boiler,

So why not just say you cant a heat exchanger for it when you can more than likely still get the gas valve, thermostat and thermo couple and probably still be able to get hold of burner

When is the best time to upgrade?

As a general guide, boilers over 15 years of age are likely to be the least energy efficient and most difficult to source parts for if they should break down unexpectedly. Therefore it might make sense to replace an old boiler sooner rather than later.

[DLMURL="http://www.domgen.com/newslines/issue_2/boiler.html"]Newslines: Is your boiler ready for retirement?[/DLMURL]

 

[petercj]

I can see we will never agree on this, you have obviously got a real problem with British Gas. So I will say tara for now.

It takes a lot to stir me up, but BG have managed it - as mentioned, there is a history to my current opinion of BG, besides what has been mentioned here.

If you are an advocate for BG, you should have some interesting conversations on here, because I'm not the only one who has issues with them.

Nothing personal though, I can appreciate that they provide everything you need and a good wage, so toeing the party line and picking up the salary cheque is fair enough.

 

[Hybrid]

I don't work for BG but when a boiler is getting on in years I advise that the customer starts putting some money aside for a replacement in the event that it carks it. That's not disingenuous, it's sensible advise.

If you want to trawl ebay and ring around for weeks on end you'll probably be able to find a part for any boiler. After all that there's no guarantee that some other component isn't coming to the end of it's life and will soon need replacing.

 

[Millsy 82]

When is the best time to upgrade?

As a general guide, boilers over 15 years of age are likely to be the least energy efficient and most difficult to source parts for if they should break down unexpectedly. Therefore it might make sense to replace an old boiler sooner rather than later.

[DLMURL="http://www.domgen.com/newslines/issue_2/boiler.html"]Newslines: Is your boiler ready for retirement?[/DLMURL]

But do they take into account that you are removing a highly reliable boiler with only a few parts and replacing with a newer boiler which even the best boilers are not going to last as long and be as cheap to fix as the original.

All that I am saying is you CANT give best advice just because of the age of the appliance. It should be also on condition and if it is their best option.

I have been in this trade long enough to know that the boiler may not be as efficient but it will more than likely be more reliable.

 

[Gary71]

Needing a laptop to take the case off pmsl
Yes If I come across a boiler which is new to me, then I will look at the manufacture instructions, isn't that what they are there for? The one thing with working for British Gas is I can't say to a customer "sorry, don't work on them" which Is what a lot of local firms tend to say. At British Gas we have to work on every appliance out there as long as its service listed. I went to work in Derby for a couple of weeks to help out in that extreme cold weather we had and I came across a boiler called a Wolf, thank god it wasn't service listed lol. Have you ever heard of a boiler called a Wolf?

I was a we once, so I know what it's like to work as a BG service engineer , so when I talk about credibility it would be from my experiences working as a BG engineer.

The point I was trying to make albeit badly is for you to ignore the negative impact privatisation has had on your job and some that do it, is as bad as those who think every BG engineer is a PC driven fruitloop needing a CD rom to be told how to start the van in the morning.

I have two wolfs I have to service soon for my sins.

 

[Doodlebug]

I don't work for BG but when a boiler is getting on in years I advise that the customer starts putting some money aside for a replacement in the event that it carks it. That's not disingenuous, it's sensible advise.

If you want to trawl ebay and ring around for weeks on end you'll probably be able to find a part for any boiler. After all that there's no guarantee that some other component isn't coming to the end of it's life and will soon need replacing.

At last someone who can see common sense, thanks Hybrid.

 

[petercj]

At last someone who can see common sense, thanks Hybrid.

Advising someone to put some money aside for a new boiler when the current one is getting old is good advice.

However, when a customer of BG has paid for Home Care over a number of years, possibly right through the life of their boiler, it won't be surprising if the customer wants to keep the boiler going as long as possible.

Which is when a conflict of interest arises, i.e. having taken the HC payments over the years, BG want to get the aging boiler off contract.

Telling a customer that "our supplier no longer keeps the parts" may be very convenient for BG, but the customer is likely to want them to look a little further afield than right under their noses.

 

[Gary71]

At last someone who can see common sense, thanks Hybrid.

Very good advice from Hybrid, but how would you equate that to BG's corporate ethos which would prefer their engineers to make the sale of a new boiler at the first opportunity, it was like that 25 years ago when they used to give us turkeys for Christmas if we sold enough, then moving on to training days where they tried to turn us in to salesmen with leaflets.

If you lean towards Hybrids way of thinking then fair play to you, but there's enough wearing the same uniform as you still chasing the turkey.

 

[Doodlebug]

Advising someone to put some money aside for a new boiler when the current one is getting old is good advice.

However, when a customer of BG has paid for Home Care over a number of years, possibly right through the life of their boiler, it won't be surprising if the customer wants to keep the boiler going as long as possible.

Which is when a conflict of interest arises, i.e. having taken the HC payments over the years, BG want to get the aging boiler off contract.

Telling a customer that "our supplier no longer keeps the parts" may be very convenient for BG, but the customer is likely to want them to look a little further afield than right under their noses.

We don't try to or want to take boilers off contract, on the contrary in fact, we take boilers on that are very very old but just advise the customer that there is a likelyhood that we may not be able to fix it, ie: if we can't get the part.

 

[Doodlebug]

Very good advice from Hybrid, but how would you equate that to BG's cooperate ethos which would prefer their engineers to make the sale of a new boiler at the first opportunity, it was like that 25 years ago when they used to give us turkeys for Christmas if we sold enough, then moving on to training days where they tried to turn us in to salesmen with leaflets.

If you lean towards Hybrids way of thinking then fair play to you, but there's enough wearing the same uniform as you still chasing the turkey.

British Gas Technical service and repair engineers DONT sell boilers, we advise on the need to think about replacing the boiler and then ask the customer if they'd like an adviser to give them further advise on what boiler to go for and what the cost will be. I personally think British Gas are way too expensive on the installation side of the bussiness.

 

[tamz]

We all know (well some of us do) that BG promote (very heavily) "sales through service" They pressure their army of 000's of service engineers to offer best advice (ie sell). They offer inducements to sweeten this. Is this wrong? Probably not. Every company needs sales to survive and everyone likes a bonus on top of their wages but the pressure to sell is pushed hard from the top down. If you are not hitting your targets you will be pulled up. Some of the guys (mainly older) have the balls and experience to ignore the pressure and only sell if it is really necessary but most succumb to it.
It is not the engineers who are at fault it is the company policy.
When is a service not a service?
Because of the number of calls they do in a day the engineers are somewhat restricted to what they can actually do on each job before they are over their time so BG pioneered the use of analysers (when some were still testing for leaks with a match) as it was a way of checking if a strip down service was actually required to save time. We all know as they did, 9/10 RS boilers need very little cleaning so why not test before stripping it? How many who do a full service to the MI's open the case and think they have won (another) watch because it is as clean as a whistle so why do something that is not necessary? If a FGA indicates it needs stripped it will be (bummer eh lol)
A company the size of BG will have more complaints than most because of the sheer volume of numbers. Yes they employ a lot of numpties but they also have a lot of VERY good well trained engineers. Even i've employed numpties (one for an hour) and i personally vet them!
They are definitely not the company they once were when they were public owned but they are now a PLC answerable to shareholders looking for a profit. Their ethics on some things are questionable at times but it is easy to have a dig at them.
BG have done a lot for or this industry including keeping my profits up over the years so although i may have my opinions on some of their practices i'm not going to knock them too much :smile:

 

[Gary71]

British Gas Technical service and repair engineers DONT sell boilers,.

The process of a sale starts with the British Gas Technical service and repair engineer, without your lead there's no sale, some engineers won't repair a older boiler but will look to start the boiler sales process to get a turkey for Christmas, not all engineers are the same but they do make it harder for decent gas men, as for the managements role I found that I was pushed to start the selling process i.e a lead, than repair a old boiler.