BBC Watchdog - British Gas

[Doodlebug]

I'm saying what I'm saying as a result of what I've witnessed, as described above.

As mentioned, I do have issue with BG, which at the moment look like leading to a court case.

I am peeved with the way BG mislead and duck and dive when asked a straight question, and in my experience there is an institutional arrogance about BG which I find irritating. As said, I don't want to go into the main issues here. If I get them into the County Court they will have to give some straight answers, so that's my aim at the moment. BG have caused me problems, and I don't care how big they are, I will keep going till I nail them.

You got no chance mate and I look forward to seeing you fail.

 

[tamz]

Would it be best if I serviced the boiler and gave no advise at all?

Of course not but qdos helps :lol:

 

[Doodlebug]

Of course not but qdos helps :lol:

Pmsl I love my qdos

 

[Hybrid]

You got no chance mate and I look forward to seeing you fail.

I think that's the institutional arrogance he was talking about :lol:

 

[petercj]

You got no chance mate and I look forward to seeing you fail.

I doubt I will get the satisfaction of putting my questions to BG management in the County Court - the reason being that their legal advisers will tell them to settle the matter out of court.

Which will mean I have won a personal battle, but it will mean I am unable to do anything to further the case for the general good of people who take all that BG tell them at face value.

I may well forward the papers to one of the TV consumer protection programs whatever the outcome, but having a court judgement in my favour to support the facts would be a great help in getting them to run with it in a program.

My advise to any consumer considering paying BG for a service or a repair is to request full written details of the work that will be charged for, and to get at least two other quotes from suitably qualified engineers so that a comparison can be made.

Also, to anyone paying BG to service their boiler, I suggest they familiarise themselves with what the manufacturer's say should be done during a service, and to watch the BG engineer to see if such maintenance is actually carried out.

A test is not the same thing as servicing a piece of equipment to maintain it in good work order.

No one with any mechanical knowledge would ever suggest that an MOT on a vehicle is the same thing as a Service, i.e. checking something doesn't change the basic condition of it.

A test might be carried out as part of a service, but that's a different matter, e.g. the emissions test on a vehicle MOT does not mean that the vehicle has been serviced, and no one with any sense would ever suggest that it does.

Similarly, a visual inspection of machinery does not change the condition of that piece of equipment, i.e. it might be part of a service, but it is not an act of maintenance that will restore equipment to full working order.

The above are basic concepts, and all anyone needs to do to check that they are getting a Service as defined by the manufacturer of their boiler is the boiler handbook and service schedule, and to watch what the engineer does, i.e. is the front cover of the boiler removed, and are the main components as described in the manufacturer's service schedule dismantled, checked, and cleaned.

Most customers won't be able to tell whether the service has been carried out competently, but they will be able to see whether the basic procedures have been followed.

 

[Gary71]

All companies want to make money no harm in that. Here's a scenario, I'm in a customers house and service the boiler, I fill out my paperwork and advise the customer on the benefits of trv's, remote heating controls or a Magnabooster. The customer declines and I leave literature for the product I've advised on. That's it, my job their is done, what the customer does with the advise I've given is totally up to them, no pressure at all. Would it be best if I serviced the boiler and gave no advise at all?

Its all about credibility, you should be in a position to do your job as a service engineer and leave sales to the salesmen.

 

[Doodlebug]

This is your statement from a previous post....... The BG schedule is listed here - the front cover doesn't get taken off the case, so there is absolutely no chance of executing the manufacturer's service schedule:-

The web page you took this assumption from......
Boiler Service and Safety Checks - One-off Boiler Service - British Gas

Now I will ask you again, where on that web page does it state the case doesnt get removed? I am really intrigued now as to what your grievance with British Gas is.
I work for British Gas and I service a boiler as per British Gas operational procedures.

 

[Doodlebug]

Its all about credibility, you should be in a position to do your job as a service engineer and leave sales to the salesmen.

I am not a salesman and never will be. If i was self employed I would give the same advise as I do working for British Gas. Are you saying you don't offer your customers advise? When I advise customers on a product I leave them with the appropriate literature and it is then up to them if they take my advise, no pressure.
The amount of customers I meet who always complain about the price of gas, am I not doing my job by offering them advise on keeping there bills down, ie: installing TRV's, a room stat or simply asking if they have loft or cavity wall insulation, which by the way is free through British Gas.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

can all posters take note,keep your comments constructive unless you have evidence of any wrong doing by BG then please do not start pointing fingers

 

[Doodlebug]

can all posters take note,keep your comments constructive unless you have evidence of any wrong doing by BG then please do not start pointing fingers

Thank you Gas man

 

[petercj]

This is your statement from a previous post....... The BG schedule is listed here - the front cover doesn't get taken off the case, so there is absolutely no chance of executing the manufacturer's service schedule:-

The web page you took this assumption from......
Boiler Service and Safety Checks - One-off Boiler Service - British Gas

Now I will ask you again, where on that web page does it state the case doesnt get removed? I am really intrigued now as to what your grievance with British Gas is.
I work for British Gas and I service a boiler as per British Gas operational procedures.

As I've already said, my statement about the cover not being removed is based on observing a number of BG boiler "services", and various replies from BG saying that removing the cover is not required because they don't consider that dismantling is necessary if the gas check is ok.

Now having answered your question more than once, would you care to describe: "British Gas operational procedures" in relation to boiler servicing?

Which shouldn't be difficult, after all, if you're proud of your work and BGs servicing, why not shout it from the roof tops?

 

[Doodlebug]

I find it hard to believe anyone would tell you that removing the case is not required. I can only imagine this was a phone operator who doesn't know what they are talking about. You haven't answered my question fully as I asked you why did you refer to that web page. The servicing policy is too long and detailed to list but I can assure you that the case must always be removed for inspection of the heat exchanger, any engineer not doing this, isn't doing he's job correctly.

 

[mountainman]

If I can add my two pennyworth
I was BG trained before it was BG and I have openly stated that the training I received was second to none.

My only gripe with them specifically is that I can't compete with their finance terms.
But that's my problem, not theirs.

A customers gripe with them recently focussed on the 'slash & burn' method of boiler installation which resulted in my customer and her neighbour being without water for two days because the shared lead main was broken by the installation team and they evidently couldn't repair it
To be fair, I think the installation team were subbies and were only interested in getting the job done ASAP with not as much customer care as should have been.

At the end of the day, the paying customer controls the purse strings and there is no grounds for them to be disgruntled if they pay over the odds for something when there is so much free advice available just for the asking.
MM

 

[petercj]

I find it hard to believe anyone would tell you that removing the case is not required. I can only imagine this was a phone operator who doesn't know what they are talking about. You haven't answered my question fully as I asked you why did you refer to that web page. The servicing policy is too long and detailed to list but I can assure you that the case must always be removed for inspection of the heat exchanger, any engineer not doing this, isn't doing he's job correctly.

Not a phone operator - this has been gone into well above your head, believe me.

The response from BG management has been that they don't follow the manufacturer's servicing schedule, and that they have their own - which not surprisingly, you are not prepare to describe.

If you took your car/van to Kwik Fix & Co and paid for a service, and then found that various things hadn't been done, and when you challenged this they said: "we don't follow the manufacturer's servicing schedule because we've made up our own!", I don't think you would be satisified, in fact, I suspect you would use words that are not permitted on this forum.

Bearing in mind that most manufacturer's servicing schedules can be found by anyone searching the Internet, it would seem rather strange that a huge company like BG doesn't have their schedule available in the same way. If I'm wrong on that point, perhaps you can kindly provide a link?

 

[Doodlebug]

Not a phone operator - this has been gone into well above your head, believe me.

The response from BG management has been that they don't follow the manufacturer's servicing schedule, and that they have their own - which not surprisingly, you are not prepare to describe.

If you took your car/van to Kwik Fix & Co and paid for a service, and then found that various things hadn't been done, and when you challenged this they said: "we don't follow the manufacturer's servicing schedule because we've made up our own!", I don't think you would be satisified, in fact, I suspect you would use words that are not permitted on this forum.

Bearing in mind that most manufacturer's servicing schedules can be found by anyone searching the Internet, it would seem rather strange that a huge company like BG doesn't have their schedule available in the same way. If I'm wrong on that point, perhaps you can kindly provide a link?

On the safety side of a service, everything is done that is listed in the manufacture instructions. Can you explain what exactly wasn't done in this case? I've got the servicing policy up on my laptop in front of me so I'm ready to answer any questions you may have. Are you an engineer or a customer with a grievance?

 

[Tap dancer]

I've had a BG maint contract on my whole CH system for 25 years.

For most of this time, the boiler cover was removed for the annual service and ash was cleaned out.

Then for 2 or 3 years, the cover was NOT removed as I was told that "messing about with it causes more harm than good" and all they did was poke a gadget into the flue and if that was OK that's all they did.

For the last few years, they have removed the cover and cleaned out the ash.

 

[Doodlebug]

The British Gas Service Policy requires completion of a generic service check, which involves carrying out essential safety checks followed by the use of a flue gas analyser to confirm safe and efficient combustion. Only when acceptable combustion readings cannot be achieved, or when a flue gas analyser is not available, or the operative has concerns, shall a full strip and clean service , in accordance with the manufacture instructions, be undertaken. A full strip and clean service shall always be carried out on back boilers units and back circulator units. The combustion case must always be removed to enable inspection of the heat exchanger etc etc.

 

[Doodlebug]

I've had a BG maint contract on my whole CH system for 25 years.

For most of this time, the boiler cover was removed for the annual service and ash was cleaned out.

Then for 2 or 3 years, the cover was NOT removed as I was told that "messing with it causes more harm than good" and all they did was poke a gadget into the flue and if that was OK that's all they did.

For the last few years, they have removed the cover and cleaned out the ash.

A lot of boilers do get capped off after a service due to corrosion of the inner flue or case seals beyond repair. Some customers do get irate as they only wanted a service and your capping the boiler off, but when I explain that the reason they had the service in the first place was to check for safety and I've found it to be unsafe, most do understand. What boiler have you got? There's not many where you have to clean ash out of them these days.

 

[Gary71]

I am not a salesman and never will be. If i was self employed I would give the same advise as I do working for British Gas. Are you saying you don't offer your customers advise? When I advise customers on a product I leave them with the appropriate literature and it is then up to them if they take my advise, no pressure.
The amount of customers I meet who always complain about the price of gas, am I not doing my job by offering them advise on keeping there bills down, ie: installing TRV's, a room stat or simply asking if they have loft or cavity wall insulation, which by the way is free through British Gas.

I'm sure your a fantastic gasman and not driven by the sell sell altitude of some others, I know what impact privatisation has had on the role of a gas service engineer for BG, to ignore the negative side of the sell sell cooperate driven attitude is as silly as saying all BG engineers are crap and need a PC to help get the case off.

A BG engineers credibility has been effected and it isn't the same as used to be, but I can only speak of my own findings.

 

[Tap dancer]

What boiler have you got? There's not many where you have to clean ash out of them these days.

A Potterton, 25 years old, has window in front to see the nice blue flame, which heats a cast-iron heat exchanger above the flame, the ash is cleaned from below the burner.

 

[Doodlebug]

I'm sure your a fantastic gasman and not driven by the sell sell altitude of some others, I know what impact privatisation has had on the role of a gas service engineer for BG, to ignore the negative side of the sell sell cooperate driven attitude is as silly as saying all BG engineers are crap and need a PC to help get the case off.

A BG engineers credibility has been effected and it isn't the same as used to be, but I can only speak of my own findings.

Needing a laptop to take the case off pmsl
Yes If I come across a boiler which is new to me, then I will look at the manufacture instructions, isn't that what they are there for? The one thing with working for British Gas is I can't say to a customer "sorry, don't work on them" which Is what a lot of local firms tend to say. At British Gas we have to work on every appliance out there as long as its service listed. I went to work in Derby for a couple of weeks to help out in that extreme cold weather we had and I came across a boiler called a Wolf, thank god it wasn't service listed lol. Have you ever heard of a boiler called a Wolf?

 

[Doodlebug]

A Potterton, 25 years old, has window in front to see the nice blue flame, which heats a cast-iron heat exchanger above the flame, the ash is cleaned from below the burner.

Is it a floor standing boiler? You say it's 25 years old, did you know the average lifespan of a boiler is 15 years old? And British Gas didn't make that up. Best advise is to replace your 25 year old very low efficiency boiler with a modern efficient boiler. The chances are, you can't get many parts for the boiler, but saying that, they don't make boilers that last that long anymore. You could get another 10 years out of your boiler, who knows but that's a chance that you take. Experience tells me that when boilers do break, it's more than likely in the winter months. I hope your boiler goes on and on and gets you through many more winters. Good luck.

 

[petercj]

The British Gas Service Policy requires completion of a generic service check, which involves carrying out essential safety checks followed by the use of a flue gas analyser to confirm safe and efficient combustion. Only when acceptable combustion readings cannot be achieved, or when a flue gas analyser is not available, or the operative has concerns, shall a full strip and clean service , in accordance with the manufacture instructions, be undertaken. A full strip and clean service shall always be carried out on back boilers units and back circulator units. The combustion case must always be removed to enable inspection of the heat exchanger etc etc.

Thank you for confirming what I have stated on this thread - I am talking about domestic boilers.

If BG were selling Home Care on the basis that an annual safety check is done, and if thought to be necessary by BG, a Service will be carried out, that would be fair enough.

As can be seen in their sales literature and their contract material, they say that an annual safety check AND a service will be part of the agreement, which obviously leads to most customers believing that their boiler has been serviced.

Based on what I've seen of BG over the last few years, their aggressive marketing has led to the quality of service being side-lined, and I do have plenty of documentary evidence to support my opinion on that.

 

[tamz]

Have you ever heard of a boiler called a Wolf?

German company who make quite advanced boilers. Not really marketed here.

 

[Doodlebug]

Thank you for confirming what I have stated on this thread - I am talking about domestic boilers.

If BG were selling Home Care on the basis that an annual safety check is done, and if thought to be necessary by BG, a Service will be carried out, that would be fair enough.

As can be seen in their sales literature and their contract material, they say that an annual safety check AND a service will be part of the agreement, which obviously leads to most customers believing that their boiler has been serviced.

Based on what I've seen of BG over the last few years, their aggressive marketing has led to the quality of service being side-lined, and I do have plenty of documentary evidence to support my opinion on that.

I can see we will never agree on this, you have obviously got a real problem with British Gas. So I will say tara for now.