Bleeding central heating rads issue

[moogwai]

surely the gate valve on the f&e tank outlet filling the heating circuit should not be there I know it will not solve your problem can anyone confirm this?

yep, i agree..there's not meant to be any obstuction on f & e pipework which could cause a blockage...i remember that from my college days.

 

[ksareen]

Dear all

Devoted couple of hours yestreday to save being reprimanded today

Results:
1. DHW running fine now, unscrewed pump screw and hot water cylinder union at top to bleed air.
2. All rads bled, CH working fine now as it should. Monster of a job really of reverse filling with mains water. The drain plug screw even when open a little leaks like hell, especially when mains is turned on full force.
3. I think I've found blockage, pic attached with area highlighted. I tried various settings on the motorised valve and with both the drain plugs but I am sure mains pressure was not reaching the area of blockage. Although I find a little magnetic effect at some TEEs, magnet hangs on to the pipe at this Tee.
4. The system is running now as before with all rads incl new ones getting warm, BUT there is a blockage (not good as moogwai advised). FE tank water is like new (just replaced) and is not mixing with the CH one, so no point adding the cleaner or inhibitor.

If you could please look at the attached pic and advise how to clear this blockage? Could I undo the pump and poke the pipe as its quite close to the pump? What are the 2 valves on either side of pump? What are they for and how do you operate them?

Regarding the gate valve on the cold outlet feed pipe on FE tank, I am not as educated as you on these things but I found that very useful to empty the FE tank and isolate the CH from FE tank. In fact I've another idea now, should I try to mains flush the CH by opening the drain plug and connecting the CH feed at gate valve (undoing the gate valve) to mains pressure. Would that help to unblock the blockage?

Thanks once again.

 

[Mbear]

Dear all

Devoted couple of hours yestreday to save being reprimanded today

Results:
1. DHW running fine now, unscrewed pump screw and hot water cylinder union at top to bleed air.
2. All rads bled, CH working fine now as it should. Monster of a job really of reverse filling with mains water. The drain plug screw even when open a little leaks like hell, especially when mains is turned on full force.
3. I think I've found blockage, pic attached with area highlighted. I tried various settings on the motorised valve and with both the drain plugs but I am sure mains pressure was not reaching the area of blockage. Although I find a little magnetic effect at some TEEs, magnet hangs on to the pipe at this Tee.

this tee looks like you cold feed

4. The system is running now as before with all rads incl new ones getting warm, BUT there is a blockage (not good as moogwai advised). FE tank water is like new (just replaced) and is not mixing with the CH one, so no point adding the cleaner or inhibitor.

If you could please look at the attached pic and advise how to clear this blockage? Could I undo the pump and poke the pipe as its quite close to the pump?

it needs to be cut out and repiped

What are the 2 valves on either side of pump? What are they for and how do you operate them?

theyre called pump valves, u screw the spindle clockwise to close the valve (beware, pump valves that havnt been used in yrs can start leaking when closed/opened,even more likely as youve defo got sludge in the system)

Regarding the gate valve on the cold outlet feed pipe on FE tank, I am not as educated as you on these things but I found that very useful to empty the FE tank and isolate the CH from FE tank. In fact I've another idea now, should I try to mains flush the CH by opening the drain plug and connecting the CH feed at gate valve (undoing the gate valve) to mains pressure. Would that help to unblock the blockage?

most likely not, you'll most likely do some more damage elsewhere

it needs cutting out bud, i know its not what u want to hear but thats what needs done and trust me once its cut out the system will fill no problem.

Thanks once again.

ksareen, i know u dont want to cut it out but the issue is only gona get worse, the chokage will get bigger. do it now while the weather is still good

best of luck mbear

 

[moogwai]

ksareen, i know u dont want to cut it out but the issue is only gona get worse, the chokage will get bigger. do it now while the weather is still good

best of luck mbear

agreed.

 

[ksareen]

Thanks for your input. Its a job for the weekend then..

Do I need to drain the system again?

What fittings would be easiest to replace this Tee and elbow with.

I am a fan of solder-ring, do you get them in 22mm as well?

OR should I put compression ones in case these pipes are likely to block again in future?

P.S. What I don't understand is that this pipe seems to input to the pump. If this is choked, how is the pump running?

 

[Mbear]

Thanks for your input. Its a job for the weekend then..

Do I need to drain the system again?

yes mate, drain the entire system

What fittings would be easiest to replace this Tee and elbow with.

I am a fan of solder-ring, do you get them in 22mm as well?

yes u can

OR should I put compression ones in case these pipes are likely to block again in future?

using compression makes it easier to unblock should it re-occurr. i always fit compression on this type of job

P.S. What I don't understand is that this pipe seems to input to the pump. If this is choked, how is the pump running?

the pump will still run, as its electrical, leaving the blockage in place will eventually burnt out the pump, which will cost about £80 for a new grundfos

 

[ksareen]

Mbear

You might have a point, the pump does get quite hot when running and I was not too sure if it was supposed to be like this. Maybe its not getting enough water through that pipe.

However, interesting thing is that rads still get hot everywhere which means that the pump is still circulating the water??

 

[Gray0689]

Get a plumber stop trying to be cheap you will balls it up you have not got a clue

 

[ksareen]

Mbear, Moogwai and other helpful chaps,

Thaks for your help. The elbow had around 99% blockage (forgot to take pics). Cut it through the middle with an angle grinder. Warmed up and removed the solder joints. Cleaned all the pipes around boiler/ pump thoroughly after taking them apart and put compression fittings instead.

Rads filled up with no issues (and very fast). Started the system, all working fine, no leaks, excellent hot water and all rads are warming up. The pump does not get half as hot as before which is good.

Without your help, I am sure it would have not been this easy. Many thanks once again.

The only issue is adding cleaner and inhibitor. I've Kilrock cleaner from B&Q but I am thinking of leaving it till winters as even if I add it now, it won't circulate as heating is OFF.

Gray0689: Makes me wonder why people like you join forums when this is the best advice you can offer.

 

[Gray0689]

Your descrpion makes me think your a muppet I'm a pro if I don't know how to do somthing and it's not my profesion I will pay to get if fixed not be tight

 

[ksareen]

Have you heard in your life about "learning" or is that too much to expect from a "pro"

If your plumbing abilities are as good as your judging, I should really be praying for your customers. My final advice for you is to see a doctor.

 

[Gray0689]

Lol I defo don't need you advice

 

[Toddyplumb]

Dont forget to check for pump over

 

[moogwai]

gray0689 you made me laff with yer comments.....ksareen glad you finally got it sorted.

 

[Gray0689]

I hate peaple who take the micky he knows nothing just to tight to get a good plumber

 

[moogwai]

I hate peaple who take the micky he knows nothing just to tight to get a good plumber

and there are alot of people out there like that....but at the end of the day are they too tight or just plane skint! one of them ones mate!

 

[Gray0689]

He said he just moved to a new house so makes me think just tight

 

[easyt]

Might be like me. When I have moved house I have used all my spare cash to keep the mortgage as low as possible.

 

[ksareen]

I hate peaple who take the micky he knows nothing just to tight to get a good plumber

and there are alot of people out there like that....but at the end of the day are they too tight or just plane skint! one of them ones mate!

Love people who think they know everything (they don't), yet they are of no help when it comes to real issues. I can understand why you hate people who don't throw money at you for easy jobs as that is all you are capable of!!

Begging might be a better profession for the likes of these ones..

Toddyplumb, Thanks for the reminder, will check and get back to you (unless this thread gets hijacked by these self-styles pros for their contructive judgements).

Might be like me. When I have moved house I have used all my spare cash to keep the mortgage as low as possible.

Hi easyT, cash is not an issue. DIY is my hobby and I get immense joy of learning something new and doing something myself (I am an engineer by education). If you can't cook, the best advise should not be to get takeaway all the time.

I get the same joy when helping others with the skills I possess.

 

[ksareen]

Dont forget to check for pump over

Hi Toddyplumb, checked foor pump over with CH only for 30 minutes, CH + DHW for 30 minutes and DHW only for 30 minutes last night, there is no water coming out of FE tank overhead pipe at the moment, so I suppose removing cold feed blockage solved pump over issues for now?

When the boiler is in DHW only mode, it makes some slushing noises every now and then and 1 radiator is also warming up. Would it be the 3 port diverter valve that needs checking/ cleaning?

I've bled the pump at its central screw and copper cylinder at the union to get rid of air. Is there any other place where this boiler can be bled? Its a Potterton profile 50e.

 

[RoryD]

cut the vent pipe (on the vertical near the tank). Pour water down here along with fernox F3. Bleed the rads and continue filling / bleeding until rads are done. Rejoin the vent pipe using 22mm compression fitting. Run your system and get the cold feed cleaned out / replaced for the winter

 

[ksareen]

thanks RoryD, that's a very nice way indeed to add system cleaner, mine is a Kilrock.

Regarding cleaning the cold feed, I think its clean after I took it apart and cleaned all the pipes n replaced fittings. All the rads are now filling rapidly from the FE tank and clean water is flowing out of rads now after a few drains.

Its working OK, but when the boiler is in DHW only mode, it makes splashing noises, akthough water is getting warm as before. The CH is not coming on now when the setting is only for DHW.