Changing the MCS

[unguided1]

how do you propose we eliminate cowboys?

Hi Fuzzy firstly I admit I do not have all the answers and considering the state of our industry niether do the muppets that are supposed to be regulating our industry but I reckon that the whole industry desperatly needs a huge shake up also as we are all agreed that rougue installers are definetly cowboys, why not have a bounty system where every time a cowboy is prosecuted who ever assists with getting them caught gets a reward, more importantly this your industry as well as mine what are your suggestions to improve it

 

[MickW]

MCS don't want you, the small guy, to have any part of their industry. All the excuses are groundless as they only want to keep the prices high and make a shed load of money. They are part of the Summit Skills quango. These people are the ones who wanted to implement 6129 plumbing in schools for 14 year olds about 5 years ago. They don't check your work they check your paperwork and catch you out on this to fail you. They failed this guy who my teacher knew on an import ticket he submitted of a pellet boiler.
It is changing and you will be able to access it more easily. I will find out more info regarding how and bring it here to you all. At present I don't have exact information. Only bits and I don't wish to confuse anything.

I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.

 

[dontknowitall]

how do you propose we eliminate cowboys?

I'll suggest buying some bows and arrows, until I can come up with a much more sensible solution.


To be honest, a CLOSED book set of exams on the basics of heating and ventilating a house, wet plumbing, basic building regulations, water regulations and unvented cylinders and so on. A proviso that no examination can be taken within 4 weeks of attending a course. I find it all too easy to pass an exam when I've read the books that morning. I'd have much more difficulty if there was a time gap if I was new to the industry. If experienced then these basic exams would be quite simple.

Then subsets of exams on various forms of providing heat, i.e. gas, oil, solar, ground source, etc. A separate exam for basic electricity to be covered by plumbers and electricians and then more detailed exams for electricians.

Okay, I know it's more exams but IF THERE WAS ONE SINGLE BODY FOR PLUMBING, HEATING and ELECTRICITY instead of GasSafe, OFTEC, HETAS, MCS, REAL, CIPHE, ELECSA, NICIE, Mrs Jones's Trusted Plumbing and Heating Engineers, etc it would cut costs of registration and would also give customers a single contact point if they had an issue with a tradesman.

To me, all the above will stop those people just setting themselves up as a renewable heat source company and installing systems that don't work properly or are poorly installed. Please note there's nothing about recording phone calls, complaints procedures, etc, etc. It is purely trying to create a better standard of installation. I'm not trying to stop new companies - only wanting them to have sufficient knowledge and good installation techniques to make a good job as opposed to having great salespeople selling the wrong type of system to customers or not sticking to sensible installation standards.

As a separate topic I'd also like to see people like me who are reasonably new to the industry, having to pass a basic exam in building techniques (e.g. where to notch joists, sleeving pipes through walls, preparing walls before tiling, etc, etc). I'm sure most of us have taken an educated guess in the past when confronted with a difficulty and perhaps done jobs where we have since realised that we did something wrong.

 

[CES]

I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.

I hope you dont miss any of them Mick. I take exception reading on the Summitskills website about how they are "Taking the lead role in putting together part of the action plan focusing on the skills and knowledge that will be required, SummitSkills was able to draw on its bank of expertise gained by working closely day-to-day with employers and trade associations in the plumbing, electrotechnical, heating and ventilating, refrigeration and air conditioning industries. These are the people who will be responsible for installing environmental technologies."
I for one have nothing to do with summit skills. I as a small business owner have never had any dealings whatsoever and no one has ever asked about my views on the industry. Maybe its time the people who make the decisions should take a little bit more care about whom they appoint as trusted advisors.
Most of these folk wouldn't know what a heat pump was if it bit them on the chorus (rhyming slang there).:mad2:

Goes to show just who is being catered for with this MCS. A training provider advising the government? hmm...

 

[unguided1]

I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.

I can lend you a pair of size tens a lump hammer and a Kango, with a bleeding loveslave for effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MickW]

I can lend you a pair of size tens a lump hammer and a Kango, with a bleeding loveslave for effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Mike, but I think I'll make do with my briefing document and a few persuasive words! I might come back for the trade style attack equipment if they don't listen :icon12:

 

[unguided1]

Thanks, Mike, but I think I'll make do with my briefing document and a few persuasive words! I might come back for the trade style attack equipment if they don't listen :icon12:

No worries Mick, are you sure that breifing document will be enough I am sure that me and the guys would be more than happy to assist with some WMC's, (Weapons of Mass Construction)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[unguided1]

Just found this on the Electricians Forum, turns out, they are not very happy either and one of their members TedM has asked question directly from the members to Gideon Richards who apparantly is the interim CEO of the MCS.

So I already know what I will be asking so if you have any questions for him fire away cos he will be getting a phone call for an apointment in the morning,


Here is the thread from the electricians forum Questions for MCS

 

[MickW]

I have just had an interesting 28 minute phone call with Gideon Richards, Chair of MCS steering group, after I criticised him on hearing an interview he gave about MCS accreditation. Needless to say, we did not agree about a few things!!

Credit where credit is due, though, he is coming to see me in the very near future and he is bringing with him the guy who is leading the current consultation on MCS.

I'm looking forward to that

 

[unguided1]

I have just had an interesting 28 minute phone call with Gideon Richards, Chair of MCS steering group, after I criticised him on hearing an interview he gave about MCS accreditation. Needless to say, we did not agree about a few things!!

Credit where credit is due, though, he is coming to see me in the very near future and he is bringing with him the guy who is leading the current consultation on MCS.

I'm looking forward to that

I want to meet that git too

 

[unguided1]

Looks like the message is getting through http://www.utilityweek.co.uk/news/news_story.asp?id=195094

 

[SimonG]

Looks like the message is getting through Barker admits that the microgeneration certification scheme is under fire

£18,000 per technology? I know it's expensive but?

 

[unguided1]

£18,000 per technology? I know it's expensive but?

What would you expect from a politician they never get all the facts right, but at least they are starting to realise that they have made another complete cockup.

 

[SimonG]

What would you expect from a politician they never get all the facts right, but at least they are starting to realise that they have made another complete cockup.

Aye, true. Should be an interesting 6 to 12 months.

 

[markfxy]

Maybe he mixed it up with the amount he trousers each week from his shares in renewables companies

 

[fuzzy]

we already have those exams unguided, within the original plumbing/heating quals. then there are additional quals for gas, oil, solar, heat pumps etc, so i think the model you suggest is alreay there. i do agree a single registration body would make things so much better

 

[MickW]

Right, I'm off at the crack of dawn to tackle the APHC Sustainability Group!

I'd like to get this lot supporting the campaign!

 

[Gray0689]

Best of luck Mick

 

[CES]

Good luck Mick, hopefully get some good responses.

 

[unguided1]

Good luck mick

 

[MickW]

Thanks lads!

 

[CES]

Would it be worth noting something on the Government's Red Tape challenge website?

Red Tape Challenge - About Red Tape Challenge

 

[ecowarm]

Can this be a sticky ???

It has had more replies and views than the other MCS thread that is a sticky.

Good call CES

 

[mylocalgasman]

DECC published the Microgeneration Strategy today. http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...ogeneration/2015-microgeneration-strategy.pdf

In that document, the importance of small business is recognised in Action 25 and the explanation in clause 4.14.

Action 25
Industry bodies to reach out to the small installer community who are potential advocates of microgeneration technologies as part of their everyday business.

4.14 At present, small installer companies may be not be clarifying the case for microgeneration to potential consumers. The trade associations and other industry bodies have an ideal opportunity to work with their respective members to promote microgeneration. SMEs will want clear concise information about what the opportunities of microgeneration mean for them and how they can get involved.

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Well, they have got this spot on, but most small installers are not even talking microgeneration to potential consumers and they won’t until they feel able to get involved.

I think most of us agree with the sentiments of Action 25, but as it stands, the smaller installer community are not ready to be advocates, but quite the opposite. I believe my proposal to exempt small business from the QMS element, if implemented, will help this part of the strategy succeed.

Apologies if i have come in half way through a thread and this has already been covered, "Who is the driveing force behind the renewable market" , the general public, i dont think so, who on this forum has been inundated with enquiries from customers wanting to pay the extra charge involved in fitting green technolgies. There is not, nor will be any apetite from goverment to fund up-skilling. We are Skint !

 

[MickW]

Would it be worth noting something on the Government's Red Tape challenge website?

Red Tape Challenge - About Red Tape Challenge

Yes, I looked at that a couple of months ago, but it looks like they are inviting comment about specific legislation and I couldn't find anything to do with MCS accreditation there. I've had another look today and still can't find anything relevant. If you, or anyone else, can find a suitable section to place a comment, I'd be very grateful.

I did try to cover this in the closing paragraph of my original blog:

This government talks a lot about the green agenda, encouraging small business, and deregulation. Slimming down MCS to a competence/safety based system for small business will tick all those boxes, with zero downside risk.
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