dhw flow

[columbo]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to achieve now mate

yeah I know what you mean about the limited flow rate but the shower temp fluctuates a lot even when washing machine and every other tap is off. all I want to achieve is a decent working shower.

 

[columbo]

You will never get the same flow from hot has you do from cold ! hot supply is restricted through boiler, reason boiler is only designed to give 8.5 Lts there is nothing you can do to alter this other than replacing your boiler with one that will give better flow rate, and if you are trying to match cold water then you will need a unvented cylinder / or storage combi both of these are quite expensive options

but should the hot supply really be restricted by 4.4 litres/min as it passes through diverter and heat exchanger? new diverter was fitted few months ago by plumber btw.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

but should the hot supply really be restricted by 4.4 litres/min as it passes through diverter and heat exchanger? new diverter was fitted few months ago by plumber btw.

yes and plus theres other factors eg tap showers internals etc

 

[columbo]

well the last flow test I done was from the washing machine hoses which connect in to the pipes about 1 metre from the boiler. so with that flow comparison that would be about a 40% lost between the main feed in and the dhw out.

 

[Riley]

Is that hot or cold??

I'm really sorry I'm missing the point of what you're trying to ascertain?

We've told you that the flow through the boiler will be significantly less than the cold. We've found that this is right based on the capabilities on the age and of the spec of you boiler??? You cannot get more hot water out of a boiler than what it's designed to do.

Can you elaborate?

 

[spanner]

well the last flow test I done was from the washing machine hoses which connect in to the pipes about 1 metre from the boiler. so with that flow comparison that would be about a 40% lost between the main feed in and the dhw out.

Why not try ripping out the thermostatic shower mixer you have with fluctuations with hot cold and put in a Manual operation lever type. They have the same hot and cold inlet centre.
And I'm opt out of this one.
Lolz

 

[Riley]

yeah I know what you mean about the limited flow rate but the shower temp fluctuates a lot even when washing machine and every other tap is off. all I want to achieve is a decent working shower.

The boiler is an older boiler, it's not going to be like new performance wise. There are a few things that could potentially be dirty/worn from use over the years. We can't tell you what they are however as you can't go in your boiler. If it's that much of an issue then get a gas safe registered engineer in to take a look. If it's the model I'm thinking of though I believe that certain parts are becoming more scarce. If you want a good balanced temperature then fit a new thermostatic shower valve.

 

[columbo]

Why not try ripping out the thermostatic shower mixer you have with fluctuations with hot cold and put in a Manual operation lever type. They have the same hot and cold inlet centre.
And I'm opt out of this one.
Lolz

it is the older grey cartridge in the mixer so I think its only pressure balanced and not thermostatic.

 

[columbo]

The boiler is an older boiler, it's not going to be like new performance wise. There are a few things that could potentially be dirty/worn from use over the years. We can't tell you what they are however as you can't go in your boiler. If it's that much of an issue then get a gas safe registered engineer in to take a look. If it's the model I'm thinking of though I believe that certain parts are becoming more scarce. If you want a good balanced temperature then fit a new thermostatic shower valve.

yeah that would probably be the best idea. another thing is I have been in this flat for 4 yrs now and the shower definitely had more kick to it when we first moved in which is why I was suspecting a restriction somewhere along the line. the boiler just has Worcester 240 on it(no bosch) if that gives you an idea how old it is.

 

[columbo]

ok guys. just one last question(for tonight):smile5:. the check valves in the mixer have holes going through that are maybe 3-4mm diameter. so if I was to remove the one on the hot side would that help improve the hot flow through the mixer?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

ok guys. just one last question(for tonight):smile5:. the check valves in the mixer have holes going through that are maybe 3-4mm diameter. so if I was to remove the one on the hot side would that help improve the hot flow through the mixer?

you need the check valves

 

[Riley]

You are not going to magically improve the set up I'm afraid to say. The situation is probably a combination of poor overall boiler performance and age where things have become clogged. Your only real answer is a boiler with a better hot flow rate. The margins you are talking about are so minimal I challenge most people to even notice the difference. For a boiler of your age I it's not far off its max

 

[Riley]

Also new shower head

 

[jtsplumbing]

Do you think this guy is just lonely and wants someone to chat to ? as it doesn't seem to sink in that he cant improve his boiler performance, a Worcester 240 (24Kw) well over 20 years old, cold water temperature at this time of year he's lucky he is getting what he is, REPLACE SHOWER CARTRIDGE that's Proberly over 20 years old as well, & a new shower head would Proberly help.

 

[columbo]

Do you think this guy is just lonely and wants someone to chat to ? as it doesn't seem to sink in that he cant improve his boiler performance, a Worcester 240 (24Kw) well over 20 years old, cold water temperature at this time of year he's lucky he is getting what he is, REPLACE SHOWER CARTRIDGE that's Proberly over 20 years old as well, & a new shower head would Proberly help.

oh dear. we seem to be resorting to personal attacks:rofl:. no one is forcing you to give advice so if your going to have an attitude like that towards me then I would rather you not reply to me. you think I am on here because I am lonely? so whats your excuse???

 

[Riley]

We really are lonely :wink:

Seriously though mate. What are you trying to achieve perhaps if you tell us that then we can help out :smile:

 

[rpm]

Having read the entire thread my conclusion is that you haven`t!
Plenty of good advice and reasons have been given.

 

[jtsplumbing]

oh dear. we seem to be resorting to personal attacks:rofl:. no one is forcing you to give advice so if your going to have an attitude like that towards me then I would rather you not reply to me. you think I am on here because I am lonely? so whats your excuse???

No one is resorting to any form of personal attack ! Members on this forum give up some of there free time to give advise and hopefully help people, Some people cant be helped and you seem to fall into this category , Why not call someone out to your property and ask them there advise, I'm certain someone would be more than happy to spend time with you and give advise for FREE, Can you not understand that you can-not get your boiler to deliver anymore hot water than it already does, If you don't believe what we are telling you then ring Worcester and ask for one of there engineers to call out and test your boiler, they would be more than happy to do this for you, Or you could even think about replacing your old boiler for something that will satisfy your hot water demands ! Now could be time to spend some money and improve your life style

 

[columbo]

Having read the entire thread my conclusion is that you haven`t!
Plenty of good advice and reasons have been given.

sorry rpm I don't understand what you mean by" I haven't"?

 

[columbo]

hey guys. btw I can be helped and am very grateful for it so far:wink_smile:. anyway. other day I took cartridge out and turned it upside down and refitted it( just for testing purposes mind). tried shower and had exactly same issue with temp fluctuations. would that mean cartridge is ok? have also checked shower head and it is spotless so will be leaving that as it is the same one from when shower was working well. going to check the mains water pressure sometime on weekend and if its up at 25ish or over psi then it looks like restriction in hot side somewhere. as manual says 23.5psi should give max hot flow which is 8.5 litres/min +-15% which should give a max of 9.7 litres/min approx. we shall see:teeth_smile:

 

[Riley]

Hello again mate. Right I think in all seriousness you are flogging a dead horse with regard to improving the flow. Your boiler is getting on for 20+ years old and it will have scale muck and and all sorts in it, accumulated over the years I think it extremely unlikely that you are going to get the maximum let alone the +15%. Not sure what you were tying to achieve by turning the cartridge in the shower round as most are designed to only work one way. I think you'd be better off replacing the shower as I seem to recall that this was circa 1991? I suspect that the cartridge has had its day and is now struggling to balance the temperature. I really really really really don't think your gonna get any more hot flow out of the system though.

 

[Riley]

Sorry I forgot to mention. The flow rates temperatures etc are usually in the manufacturers own lab under absolute optimal conditions much the same as the emissions on cars or mpg.

 

[columbo]

hey riley. I understand what your saying. but at the end of the day this is a rented flat so it is not my place to replace or repair things.ok I will tell you guys the story up until now. about last feb/march we noticed that the rads were heating up when shower was in use so got on to "landlords" plumber who eventually got in to change diverter valve (boiler was also cutting out constantly when shower was in use) but that problem went when diverter was changed. or he done something else to boiler while he was changing valve. not sure of the details. anyway. come june time I got on to plumber about shower temp fluctuations. so 6 or so months later! he was round doing the silicone on the bath when I was at work. so texted him when I got home to ask if he had sorted shower and he said he had turned down the hot water temperature? anyway tried shower over next few days and could not notice the slightest improvement in it. now should a qualified plumber/gas engineer not be able to figure this issue out pretty quickly? which I why I now feel like I am getting the :nono: taken out off me. so this is the reason why I am trying to gather as much info as I possibly can regarding this problem as if it remains unresolved much longer it will be heading to the courthouse.

 

[jtsplumbing]

So your in rented accommodation, yet your stripping shower down and messing around with it, Plumber can only do a certain amount, and will need landlords permission to spend money, something most landlords hate doing, you have a system (Boiler & Shower) that is 25 years old, and is worn out, Older combi's were not the best at delivering hot water, you are never going to get more out of it than what it was designed for (8 Lts on a good day) No good having a pop at plumber, you need to address these issues direct with landlord, and if your not happy with is reply , Then find somewhere else to live !!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Your not going to have much luck in court, all he has to say that it was working fine until YOU started taking things apart and messing around with how it worked, Has B4 if your not happy Then MOVE OUT.