Disaster and stress!

[Fedup]

I did speak to Oftec last week, and they told me I had to try and resolve the problems, but they wouldn't help with the shower stuff. Only the boiler.

 

[WHPES]

This is because the shower issue is technically not part of the install, but a symptom of the change in flow. However the company should have pointed out to you that it may need a flow reducer.

 

[Fedup]

Ah yes, they ''assumed'' the showers would cope! :grin:

 

[Dannypipe]

Get on to the installer, and double check that they actually are OFTEC registered.

Ask them to put in writing how they intend to replace the expansion vessel if it fails. Whether the condensate pipe work complies with building regulations (it doesn't BTW), whether they used inserts on the compressions joints of the 10mm soft copper, and whether the boiler has been commissioned properly with a pressure gauge on the pump and using an electronic combustion analyser. Ask them to put a copy of their print off with the reply for your records.

Then ask them where the CD10/11 is and ask if they have registered the install with building control.

Once you know all these things, you will know if you've got a bona fide heating engineer in your property....or not.

A bona fide heating installer does all those things automatically. It's standard practise.

I staple my print off from the analyser to the Benchmark details for the next service engineer to see.

 

[Dannypipe]

Cowboys. They often make us guys look expensive. But we take the time to do the job properly, and to do all the paper work (which is a pain in the bum).

Annoying.

 

[Koogatubac]

Danny - btw what do you mean inserts for 10mm copper?

 

[SimonG]

Oh no SimonG, I don't have anything like that!

That was a copy of a cd/11, basically the commissioning report. There's two copies, one for you and one for the commissioning engineer. There should also be a cd/10 which is the installation report, again two copies.

 

[dontknowitall]

Danny - btw what do you mean inserts for 10mm copper?

They're like the ones used in plastic plumbing. From memory Type B fittings don't require them but Type A fittings do need them. Bit of a menace but they do make connections easier, ironically, as they give strength to the pipe.

 

[WHPES]

I use type B fittings as standard where I can as they are the most reliable.

 

[Bunker]

Totally agree with the above on all counts.
Please ask them to change the fire valve if its the old 90degree one, needs to be 65 degrees on a condensing boiler.
PLEASE tell me they fitted a proper water softener, otherwise it won't be under any warrantee and the heat exchanger won't last long (unless you naturally have soft water)
I'd definitely ask if an OFTEC inspector could come and look at it.

 

[WHPES]

Only needs a water softener if the test strip provided with the boiler says it does.

 

[lame plumber]

I use type B fittings as standard where I can as they are the most reliable.

are we talking flared fittings as opposed to comp and inserts?

 

[Fedup]

Thanks, and morning! Yes a Combi-Mate was fitted. I do not believe any analysis was done, as I have no read out. They came back on day 3, went to get an elbow for the flue, fired it up, showed me the controls and went.
:32:
Yes they are Oftec registered, Oftec confirmed that with me last week.

No CD 10 or CD 11 were given to me. And I have a feeling that they will be falsified.

My temper is running very short with them. They are only coming back because I didn't pay them the full amount, and I have persisted with the faults with the showers, and leaks.

When they arrive this morning, and I demand the CD 10/11. If they say they can't give them to me, am I within my rights to ask them to leave, and get onto Oftec and Worcester Bosch? As I say, my temper is very short and that is what I feel like doing.

 

[Koogatubac]

Aaa right, i wondered why are people using inserts with compression fittings on copper pipe lol yeah i just use type B. dont know any1 who uses the flared fittings anymore in domestic, havent even seen em since college

 

[Bunker]

Only needs a water softener if the test strip provided with the boiler says it does.

Yarp, sort of covered in my parenthesis:

(unless you naturally have soft water)

 

[Bunker]

Dear Fedup, they must give you a CD10 which is an installation completion report and they must either commission, or arrange for it to be commissioned, this will involve a small print out from an electronic flue gas analyser and the document referred to above, the CD11.
I don't know about W Bosch but most manufacturers supply these documents with the boiler.
If I were you, I wouldn't pay them any more atall until they have refitted the boiler according to manufacturers instructions, so that's the condensate and distance from the wall at least. If you have more than 8 or 9 radiators it would be worth asking if they calculated the water capacity of the house, many combi installations require an extra expansion vessel in the house otherwise again, there'll be no guarantee (this allows the water in the system to expand when hot). I'd also ask them to verify the cables are heat resistant, maybe if they are electrically qualified.

Did they flush the system out too? A reasonable indicator of their integrity there is to have a look in the loft inside the small water tank - should be nice and clean in there.

 

[Fedup]

Thanks Bunker. They did say they flushed the system through. As to the small water tank in the loft, there isn't one. They took out a big water tank, and the small water tank.

I am waiting for them to turn up, and I have contacted Worcester Bosch who are sending out an engineer today, as the fumes are bad indoors.

 

[WHPES]

Type B fittings are the flared fittings (well thats what I was always told) and that is what I use in domestic. Far more reliable than compression fittings. Rarely use compression fittings.

Inserts must ALWAYS be used with compression fittings or if there is the slightest movement in the pipe, it deforms causing the joint to weep. 10mm and under is soft copper not like Table X 15mm and above hard copper which is work hardened and does not deform as easily. Also there must not be any soldered joints in an oil line.

 

[Bunker]

They took out a big water tank, and the small water tank.

Oh yes, how very embarrassing for me...its a combi so wouldnt have one any more...

 

[Dannypipe]

Aaa right, i wondered why are people using inserts with compression fittings on copper pipe lol yeah i just use type B. dont know any1 who uses the flared fittings anymore in domestic, havent even seen em since college

As said mate, a type B is a flared fitting.

If you are using standard compression on soft copper - then you are supposed to use an insert.

Unlike many others, I always use compression fittings. They're a bit quicker to fit and I've never had any issue with them. I don't argue at all that a type B is probably better though!

 

[lame plumber]

all the oil leaks I see have no inserts!!!!!!!!

 

[Dannypipe]

Yeah, me too. Inserts are pennies too, so god knows why people don't use em.

 

[Balmoral]

soakaway sould be 500 away from external wall and electical connections are ment to be inside remembering that external boiler has to have perm live for frost stat we put our cables through in a heat sleeve good luck

 

[Fedup]

Update for all you lovely peeps. They came back yesterday morning, and tried it on with me, and then reluctantly agreed to do what they thought was wrong. A very, very kind Worcester Bosch inspector came out, and also told them what to put right. They did the work. And fitted 2 new showers.

However, 1. I have scolding water it is over 73 degrees celsius. And 2. I only ( still!!! ) have a small print out. They said they would return today with the CD10 and CD11. But.................. yeah you guessed it, no one came. Is the attached a proper reading? And thank you again.

 

[Bunker]

Those readings are text book perfect although most of us would drop the CO2 a little.
Im glad its getting sorted. There is a mixer valve on the boiler which sadly is hard to turn, but you can adjust the water temp with that, or just turn the dial down on the front of the boiler for now.

Dont pay them til you get the CD10 & 11.