Does this work seem reasonable?

[helix]

I agree with Gas Man, you'd better off with a new boiler for that sort of money and with a warranty from the manufacturer as well!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I can't comment on the technical side.
£45 per hour is a reasonable rate
Boilers can have 3 different faults at the same time or within days and after the event no-one has anyway of finding out where this did or didn't need those parts.
But 13 hours does sound very excessive.

Question is what should customer do.
i think the customer should pay for the materials straight awa so guy is not out of pocket and offer half a day's money £45 x 4 = £180 for labour - see what he says.

And lesson learned? If your usual heating expert isn't available then my advice is contact the boiler manufacturer who will either employ their own engineer or will have a list of people qualified/ trained on those boilers. I expect Ravenheat do this but we have no experience, we never fit them.

 

[wazzer]

Ravenheat would of sent an engineer round for a fixed price any fault and they guarantee the boiler for a year . they are not a good boiler but have good isolators on them so you dont usually have to drain the system just the boiler sounds like you have been ripped of by an idiot with a lack of experience have you checked Gas Safe website to see if he is registered all the parts should take no longer than half an hour each to fit

 

[mfgs]

Half hour to fit a diverter valve is a bit ambitious. They can be a real pain in the arse and can easily end up taking a couple hours, perhaps not the 5 1/2 hours this fella took though.

 

[gornsgorns]

This guy clearly hasn't got a clue and frankly is taking the micky abit. He should stick to instals since it's obvious he doesn't know much about fault finding. Why don't people like these just go on a few courses and try and learn things, rather than just guessing what's wrong and charging the customer a fortune for the privilege.

 

[RoryD]

rarely is there more than one fault causing you a breakdown and it's unlikely you'll ever have three. I'm sure someone will try and disprove. My point is, engineers should be able to diagnose logically, to pinpoint the fault

 

[diamondgas]

My point is, engineers should be able to diagnose logically, to pinpoint the fault

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a diagnostics kit at hand or even the mi's for that matter when they attend a repair! Taking the case off a boiler is daunting for many who venture into repairing appliances and if you aren't doing it day in day out you soon get rusty! I'd agree that there is always the logical approach to fault finding but when you can't even recognise components or take the bleedn' case off, it gets a bit frustrating! Personally i think the diagnostic repair engineer is a rare breed in comparison to the part fitter! If your a repair engineer working for yourself it's a scary business at times, especially when faced with something you've never seen before, new or old!

The engineer the op had was a part fitter, and an expensive one at that! However there are times when we get it wrong, times when you go with your best guess! Through time those times become less and less but they still happen and will continue too throughout your career!

Regards pinpointing a fault! One of the hardest one to get right first time every time is one of the most common faults we come across with combi's, "hot water not getting hot enough!" So many variables!

I will never know it all and I will make wrong decisions, I know i will. Beauty is I'll continue to learn from them!

 

[bill577]

It depends on who you expect to pay for your mistakes, the mistakes I have made I paid for (still got a gas valve and a couple of pcb,s in my van from my misdiagnosis) the muppet that worked on the op,s boiler is expecting the customer to pick up the bill for his mistakes and training.

 

[armourer]

Considering we have only heard one side of the story I think there a few too many people here willing to hang a fellow engineer out to dry.

Yes the amount of time he "seems" to have taken appears excessive but who is to say the boiler did not have multiple faults or what state it was in before he arrived?

Unless we are stood in front of the same boiler I dont think anybody can fairly comment one way or the other.

 

[secret squirrel]

Considering we have only heard one side of the story I think there a few too many people here willing to hang a fellow engineer out to dry.

Yes the amount of time he "seems" to have taken appears excessive but who is to say the boiler did not have multiple faults or what state it was in before he arrived?

Unless we are stood in front of the same boiler I dont think anybody can fairly comment one way or the other.

I thought I was the only one putting another side of the argument, woo hoo! I thought I was going mad(er)

 

[GQuigley67]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a diagnostics kit at hand or even the mi's for that matter when they attend a repair! Taking the case off a boiler is daunting for many who venture into repairing appliances and if you aren't doing it day in day out you soon get rusty! I'd agree that there is always the logical approach to fault finding but when you can't even recognise components or take the bleedn' case off, it gets a bit frustrating! Personally i think the diagnostic repair engineer is a rare breed in comparison to the part fitter! If your a repair engineer working for yourself it's a scary business at times, especially when faced with something you've never seen before, new or old!

The engineer the op had was a part fitter, and an expensive one at that! However there are times when we get it wrong, times when you go with your best guess! Through time those times become less and less but they still happen and will continue too throughout your career!

Regards pinpointing a fault! One of the hardest one to get right first time every time is one of the most common faults we come across with combi's, "hot water not getting hot enough!" So many variables!

I will never know it all and I will make wrong decisions, I know i will. Beauty is I'll continue to learn from them!

fault finding is fairly new to me, but was it a boiler today which had broken down think it was the PCB as there was power to the boiler but no lights or nothing and fuse was fine, just got me thinking that if it was the fuse I wouldnt have any spares. What do you more experienced breakdown guys carry as spares for boiler breakdowns ?

 

[armourer]

Personally I carry
1. Grey push button gas valve
2. 3 Amp fuses
3. 2 Amp glass quick blow fuses
4. Honeywell APS
5. Honeywell mid pos valve
6. Honeywell room stat
7. Honeywell Cyl stat
8. Giani diverter valve seal kit
9. Single channel and dual channel programmers
10. Fan oil
11. a selection of about 12 different thermistors and high limit stats
12. Grundfoss Pump
13. short lengths of wire for shorting out contacts
14. Fluke voltage stick
15. Multimeter
16. FGA

Its a good starter kit and gets you around a lot of common faults, Im sure there a few more but I cannot think now.

It is better to be prepared as a return visit is lost money in the long run.
If I had a bigger van Im sure there would be a lot more.

 

[wazzer]

I dont have many a selection of thermisters and a grey button Oh and a compulsory giaonani diaphragm and maybe a baxi one

 

[diamondgas]

fault finding is fairly new to me, but was it a boiler today which had broken down think it was the PCB as there was power to the boiler but no lights or nothing and fuse was fine, just got me thinking that if it was the fuse I wouldnt have any spares. What do you more experienced breakdown guys carry as spares for boiler breakdowns ?

It depends on what's the more popular appliances you have on contract GQ and the parts that more frequently go wrong. I have a selection of thermisters, diaphragm sets, prv's and AAV's. for starters. Have a lot of Baxi's so carry a spare PCB... An adjustable APS can be handy! Then have a boat load of washers and 'o'rings plus different types of fuses!

 

[GQuigley67]

well I could come up against any boiler really as I'm out on my own, so far have done repair work on Vokera, Ariston & Ideal boilers. Are most internal fuses the same for boilers ? or do they vary ?

 

[RoryD]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a diagnostics kit at hand or even the mi's for that matter when they attend a repair! Taking the case off a boiler is daunting for many who venture into repairing appliances and if you aren't doing it day in day out you soon get rusty! I'd agree that there is always the logical approach to fault finding but when you can't even recognise components or take the bleedn' case off, it gets a bit frustrating! Personally i think the diagnostic repair engineer is a rare breed in comparison to the part fitter! If your a repair engineer working for yourself it's a scary business at times, especially when faced with something you've never seen before, new or old!

The engineer the op had was a part fitter, and an expensive one at that! However there are times when we get it wrong, times when you go with your best guess! Through time those times become less and less but they still happen and will continue too throughout your career!

Regards pinpointing a fault! One of the hardest one to get right first time every time is one of the most common faults we come across with combi's, "hot water not getting hot enough!" So many variables!

I will never know it all and I will make wrong decisions, I know i will. Beauty is I'll continue to learn from them!

Yes but the customer is paying for a blokes incompetence and that just cannot be right. Why didn't he just phone their helpdesk?? I know I do nothing but repairs and minor upgrades, that is my forte and I take your point. I just think that it's not fair on people who rely on us and perhaps find it hard to find that sort of dough. Am i becoming a Socialist?? Please god no!!

 

[diamondgas]

Yes but the customer is paying for a blokes incompetence and that just cannot be right. Why didn't he just phone their helpdesk?? I know I do nothing but repairs and minor upgrades, that is my forte and I take your point. I just think that it's not fair on people who rely on us and perhaps find it hard to find that sort of dough. Am i becoming a Socialist?? Please god no!!

RoryD, it is annoying when you hear of the ridiculous amount of charge the OP has to face! It's the chance folk take! Personally if i make a mistake it isn't passed on! Actually Id have to say generally there because there has been the odd thermistor that has stayed put!

Regards the custard paying for incompetence. Inadvertently this happens even more in larger companies. For my sins I had to "educate" BG 'part fitters' on how to use 'expert' and diagnose faults, more times than I care to mention! Before accountability it didn't matter what parts were fitted or who were fitting them! I'd find jobs where the same parts were replaced day after day! What a waste! The local authorities turned out to be the same! The customer ultimately pays for it though!

When you're out here on your own you can't afford to get it wrong consistently!! You'd be bankrupt! lol ... Tell you what, i wish i still had blinkin 'expert system' by my side to fall back on! Real good piece of kit!

 

[wazzer]

GQuigley67 put this in ebay it will give you a selection to use for not a lot of money i could not put the link on here
[h=1]FUSE ASSORTMENT 160 x 20mm PIECES-GLASS QUICK BLOW[/h]

 

[wazzer]

dont use the h thingys in brackets

 

[RoryD]

RoryD, it is annoying when you hear of the ridiculous amount of charge the OP has to face! It's the chance folk take! Personally if i make a mistake it isn't passed on! Actually Id have to say generally there because there has been the odd thermistor that has stayed put!

Regards the custard paying for incompetence. Inadvertently this happens even more in larger companies. For my sins I had to "educate" BG 'part fitters' on how to use 'expert' and diagnose faults, more times than I care to mention! Before accountability it didn't matter what parts were fitted or who were fitting them! I'd find jobs where the same parts were replaced day after day! What a waste! The local authorities turned out to be the same! The customer ultimately pays for it though!

When you're out here on your own you can't afford to get it wrong consistently!! You'd be bankrupt! lol ... Tell you what, i wish i still had blinkin 'expert system' by my side to fall back on! Real good piece of kit!

Can't have that mate! You know I'm BG, like to think an exceptional one and there are plenty more. Using the term parts fitters is a purile swipe, you know full well that the vast majority of BG technical Engineers are very good. This isn't about BG but you always seem to come back to it. It's getting to the stage where I wonder if it's really worth helping folks out in here. It's not about throwing stones at anyone. I made a valid point with the interests of customers at heart and suddenly BG are all idiots!! Don't see the relation

 

[diamondgas]

Can't have that mate! You know I'm BG, like to think an exceptional one and there are plenty more. Using the term parts fitters is a purile swipe, you know full well that the vast majority of BG technical Engineers are very good. This isn't about BG but you always seem to come back to it. It's getting to the stage where I wonder if it's really worth helping folks out in here. It's not about throwing stones at anyone. I made a valid point with the interests of customers at heart and suddenly BG are all C**TS!! Don't see the relation

Hey RoryD ... Wow! Wasn't having a swipe at yourself matey orBG for that matter. I worked for BG 25 years, ended up service technician and am still in contact with a lot of my pals at BG! My point was that none are exempt from 'part fitters' and used my experience of working for the echelons to emphasise my point. In no way was it meant as some kind of vendetta against BG. More an acknowledgement that even the 'best' can get it wrong on occasions..... You know yourself that you don't always get it right first time yeh?

Nice to know you have the passion I once had for a company that offers a great environment to learn this trade though...lol

Chill ...

 

[SafeGasInstall]

did not read all posts but there is a point me have to make ,

very easy to slag of the gas engineer who was there !!! and all posters here never did wrong always fault find boilers correct on first go ! Well done to you all , I wish I was good as all of you !

 

[plumberdarren]

Dont tell me your suprised gas safe....its always the same lol

 

[GQuigley67]

if there were alot of things wrong with boiler though you would advise customer and suggest a new boiler as it would be silly to spend nearlly £1000 repairing a boiler when you can get a new one for a couple of hundred more

 

[diamondgas]

if there were alot of things wrong with boiler though you would advise customer and suggest a new boiler as it would be silly to spend nearlly £1000 repairing a boiler when you can get a new one for a couple of hundred more

Personally if the job's gonna be more than £100 I want to let the customer know!! End of the day, what ever the bill is going to come to you have got to let the payer know! Imagine having someone do to you what the R.Sole did to the OP? regardless of 'no one gets it right first time', could have been umpteen parts' etc! You need to keep your customer informed of any eventuality. Even if only to keep conflict at bay! Sheeeeesh! :rofl: