Ffs

[tamz]

Just not sure about the last part Tom , the bit about getting your hole lol

Some of the things i got up to Stan i would have been safer digging a hole :lol:

 

[SafeGasInstall]

not if its a jack Russel,there as thick as ****,sadly like some apprentices

Mark true ..... We need street sweepers too
but we were not perfect , were we ?! I never had a chance given to lern as a apprentice as I started when I was 30 years old

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

suppose your right stan few of the elderly plumbers said i would not make it as a plumber when i was about 17,i know look after the plumbing and boilers in there homes

 

[Ermintrude]

TT to a newbie ???
Croft don't be like this !
Tamz thank you for your post !!!

I have had a few apprentices, TT is a basic and it's the first thing to do on an install once sheets are down and system is draining. Don't expect them to know how to do it but I have given them very precise instructions and equipment, they should endeavour to complete task. If they ask for help I'm very keen to show them how to do it.

 

[jase158]

Stan, 1 question, do your apprentices get paid? I understand what stan is saying and understand, but I am struggling to see the point, If I am to put the extra effort in and spend time training him then surely he can listen and learn, if he doesn't do that then there is no point in teaching him. Also he has 2 years experience with a builder so should be able to work an sds drill, drill holes, cement etc and this is why I took him on purely because of his previous experience and I am trying to find out if he has actually got this experience as if he hasn't then he has copied his brothers cv, which means he cant even be bothered to write a cv let alone work. The issue is that he told me he has only just moved to the area, yet he has 8 years work history based in this area, so either he is lieing or his cv is? My biggest issue is that I only took him on because he had experience, if he had no experience then I could of gone for 16-17 year old, taught them to suck eggs and been privileged to £5,000 grant for my efforts. However now I have a lieing bone idle bloke that knows absolutely nothing and I don't even qualify for a grant. The college convinced me not to go for 16-17 year old as they wouldn't know what they were doing or have any experience. My van is a mess but when I asked him to tidy it he put the drain down hose on top of the electrical cables and boxes, my benders hanging off the top rack and didn't listen when I told him to take everything out and put it back in nicely, just moved everything about and made it more messy then it was in the beginning. and for the bloke who mentioned the TT, you have no chance, he would just stand there for 30 minutes scratching his head. and finnaly, yes I did put in the contract "NO BUILDERS BUM" I hate it, imagine you are an elderly woman and you offer the plumber a cup of tea and see that, especially the hairy ones, absolutely hate it, if I see it I want to put a hot bit of copper down it. It makes you feel uncomfortable, not sure where to look and unsure wether to mention it or not. Bare in mind this bloke is 27 years old, he should have some common sense!!

 

[jase158]

and just to confirm, this week went like this, day 1- getting tools and helping me, day 2- give him a plumbing task to see if he could do it and his skills, day 3- give him a building job to see his building experience. Day 1-useless, Day 2- better but didn't listen to instructions, didn't ask for help when he needed it. Day 3- didn't ask for help, stood around a lot, took forever to clean up, I asked him to check his portfolio for what was involved in inspection and testing and he completely ignored what I asked for, talked all about the bathrooms, maintenance tasks and then started filling it out.

 

[jase158]

And finally my biggest problem is I do not like telling people off, I told him that his feet had caused black marks on stairs carpet he said sorry but still did not wipe his feet when he came in, when holding core drill he put diamond edge on the customers worktop, he always forgot what I told him so every day I would have to tell him the rules and I am not here to babysit him, if I wanted to do that I would of got a 16-17 year old!!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Jase I don't have a apprentice helper this days as I have not got any work lately
End of summer was busy just now is gone quiet for me .....
When i did have work they 2 were been paid and had breakfast+drinks and sweets !
Ask "plumbers mate " he will tell you ! The thing I did was to trust them fully !!!
I did give them my van keys in the morning and only take them back at the end of the working day , they also had access to my WALLET at any time and never ever even 1p was missing ! !!
Lee aka Plumbers mate has been helping me lately by passing some business my way , to which I am MoRE ten grateful to him .
One suggestion Jase , if he ain't trust worth then let him go and find one that is trustful person and train him .
What you will struggle with is training some one when you are training your self at the same time to train them !!! Some times communicating with work mates is harder then doing the actual work . If you have a long term plans to use him ten train him if not , then call another plumber and do the job together and shear wages

 

[SafeGasInstall]

And finally my biggest problem is I do not like telling people off, I told him that his feet had caused black marks on stairs carpet he said sorry but still did not wipe his feet when he came in, when holding core drill he put diamond edge on the customers worktop, he always forgot what I told him so every day I would have to tell him the rules and I am not here to babysit him, if I wanted to do that I would of got a 16-17 year old!!

Big mistake !!!
Helper don't use drills !!!
IT iS YOU THAT DO THE WORK , his job is to set you up and clear after you !!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Sounds like you will be better off without him .

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

And finally my biggest problem is I do not like telling people off, I told him that his feet had caused black marks on stairs carpet he said sorry but still did not wipe his feet when he came in, when holding core drill he put diamond edge on the customers worktop, he always forgot what I told him so every day I would have to tell him the rules and I am not here to babysit him, if I wanted to do that I would of got a 16-17 year old!!

dustsheets? you can get stair sheets and i normally cut carbored from the boiler box for worktops or tape a sheet to it

 

[jase158]

Big mistake !!!
Helper don't use drills !!!
IT iS YOU THAT DO THE WORK , his job is to set you up and clear after you !!!!

Really!! if he isn't any use to you then why bother?? mine doesn't even clean very well but I could hire a cleaner for £5 an hour!! book them in for 1 hour at end of day and save me all the hassle of training them :tounge_smile: But seriously, don't mind putting the effort in for a 16-17 year old keen chap that wants to be at work and listens but cant be bothered with a 27 year old that cant be bothered

 

[jase158]

dustsheets? you can get stair sheets and i normally cut carbored from the boiler box for worktops or tape a sheet to it

I do usually use dust sheets but house was floor boarded and just moved in so will be getting new carpets but you cant dust sheet the whole house so it gives an indication of what he will be like when I ask him to bleed radiators and he walks on a new carpet with black carp all over them!!

 

[jase158]

dustsheets? you can get stair sheets and i normally cut carbored from the boiler box for worktops or tape a sheet to it

For the whole work top? just below the boiler yes but not the whole worktop!!

 

[Killy Bing]

... I should write a manual for apprentices tbh!

first year i went unpaid till i past my driving test, that was part of the agreement i got took on.
i wasn't allowed a phone till i was running work myself or would be left somewhere.
I had no plumbing experience, no trade experience and no real life skills for the work place!!

apart from tea making

end of the first week i had to know where everything went in two vans
how to do a full tightness and let by test on both natural gas and lpg
Pipe sizes, fittings valve types, drill bits and how they are used.
how to clean up, fold dust sheets, drain systems and refill again.

second week i had to learn how to solder and start learning to bend pipe.
lifting floors + carpets and notching + drilling
Run condensate pipes

third week i had to learn how an oil burner worked, all components.
how to do an oil line
basics for an oil service
how to hang onto the damned core drill.

well....i had three years of that!

You need someone who is EAGER to learn and to work.....brains do help!

having someone who is either thick as two short planks or who simply can't be bothered are only useful for lifting or digging...

 

[tamz]

So did you get him through the college? Sounds like it and all he (and they) is interested in is using you as a means to an end to get his portfolio signed off. He will show absolutely no loyalty. Fk that.

If he is 27 bin him and start a local school leaver lad and collect the grants.

If you are going to do this right it is a long term commitment. Pay him the correct jib rate wage (it is not expensive, less than minimum wage to start with).
People with no wages have no motivation unless they have a longer term goal which is as competition to you. The odd tenner or 20 quid extra if he does well in the week is a big motivation.
Put him through college (they have to find a space for him if he is employed) It won't cost you or him anything.
Do it right and you will have a long term asset to your company not one that will want to immediately set up in competition or fk off the first time something doesn't suit him.

 

[Destroyer2813]

No arse hanging out is in his contract :biggrin:, if I had that but in front of me I'd laugh at ya and if I ever saw yours hanging out I'd be pointing I out straight away

 

[cr0ft]

TT to a newbie ???
Croft don't be like this !
Tamz thank you for your post !!!

Matey I'm probably the biggest advocate you will find for training young people. It was my job in the military before I left. Unfortunately if someone has the wrong attitude it is a waste of time. It really sounds like this guy does tbh.

 

[kay-jay]

So did you get him through the college? Sounds like it and all he (and they) is interested in is using you as a means to an end to get his portfolio signed off. He will show absolutely no loyalty. Fk that.

If he is 27 bin him and start a local school leaver lad and collect the grants.

If you are going to do this right it is a long term commitment. Pay him the correct jib rate wage (it is not expensive, less than minimum wage to start with).
People with no wages have no motivation unless they have a longer term goal which is as competition to you. The odd tenner or 20 quid extra if he does well in the week is a big motivation.
Put him through college (they have to find a space for him if he is employed) It won't cost you or him anything.
Do it right and you will have a long term asset to your company not one that will want to immediately set up in competition or fk off the first time something doesn't suit him.

I dont think he can tam.
Iirc the jib and jtl bodies require that someone taking on a proper school leaver apprentice should have the required exprience. 5 years I think for someone time served and probably much longer for someone not time served.

I dont think jase meets these requirements.

 

[tamz]

I dont think he can tam.
Iirc the jib and jtl bodies require that someone taking on a proper school leaver apprentice should have the required exprience. 5 years I think for someone time served and probably much longer for someone not time served.

I dont think jase meets these requirements.

You may be right there Kevan. I never thought about it that way but to teach someone you have to know what you are teaching.

 

[Ray Stafford]

And finally my biggest problem is I do not like telling people off,

This is a management skill, no different from bending pipe or diagnosing an electrical problem. If you are going to employ people, you absolutely have to master it.

It isn't "telling off". Thats what adults do to children. This is identifying where an employees behaviour or working standard is below your requirements, and then taking steps to improve it. Its a negotiation between two adults - admittedly adults of different status in the relationship, but adults nonetheless.

Three things to remember.

1) tackle the behaviour, not the person. So never say that an employee is stupid. They may be engaging in stupid behaviour - thats different. A stupid person can't stop being stupid. However, a person who used to do stupid things, but doesn't any more is just learning.

2) Explain why. "Because I say so" is not a good reason, and provides no motivation.

3) At the end of the conversation, it is essential that they walk away thinking about THEIR behaviour, and not YOUR behaviour. If you shout and scream, they will mostly be thinking about your unreasonable behaviour. If you are calm and controlled, there is a chance that they will can concentrate on what to change in THEIR behaviour.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

And just to ad to Rays words :

You must always find the best time to big up the working crew , lets say a soft drink and a chocolate bar at 3pm !!!
"Well done" means a lot to the work force

 

[supper plumb]

id go mad i cant and will not stand around doing nothing i have to be doing something even cleaning the van out or tidying up the work place if there no plumbing for me to do at the time.
i love getting stuck in running pipes clips lifting board what ever as for smoking if your going to smoke go and have one on your brake time down the road or something.pull your pants up or wear a belt!!!! busting the bosses tools id of bust him.... i havent too time for guys that just cant be asked..

there was a lab on a site that was agency that just didnt want to be there at all you ask him to sweep up that would take all day!!
if you asked him to get something you had to show him what it was first so he knew what it looked like

 

[jase158]

So did you get him through the college? Sounds like it and all he (and they) is interested in is using you as a means to an end to get his portfolio signed off. He will show absolutely no loyalty. Fk that.

If he is 27 bin him and start a local school leaver lad and collect the grants.

If you are going to do this right it is a long term commitment. Pay him the correct jib rate wage (it is not expensive, less than minimum wage to start with).
People with no wages have no motivation unless they have a longer term goal which is as competition to you. The odd tenner or 20 quid extra if he does well in the week is a big motivation.
Put him through college (they have to find a space for him if he is employed) It won't cost you or him anything.
Do it right and you will have a long term asset to your company not one that will want to immediately set up in competition or fk off the first time something doesn't suit him.

JIB rate only applies to under 19 year olds. over 19 and they get basic minimum wage!!

 

[PlumbersMate]

Jase I don't have a apprentice helper this days as I have not got any work lately
End of summer was busy just now is gone quiet for me .....
When i did have work they 2 were been paid and had breakfast+drinks and sweets !
Ask "plumbers mate " he will tell you ! The thing I did was to trust them fully !!!
I did give them my van keys in the morning and only take them back at the end of the working day , they also had access to my WALLET at any time and never ever even 1p was missing ! !!
Lee aka Plumbers mate has been helping me lately by passing some business my way , to which I am MoRE ten grateful to him .
One suggestion Jase , if he ain't trust worth then let him go and find one that is trustful person and train him .
What you will struggle with is training some one when you are training your self at the same time to train them !!! Some times communicating with work mates is harder then doing the actual work . If you have a long term plans to use him ten train him if not , then call another plumber and do the job together and shear wages

Loved the ice lolly breaks