Gas Engineers > What is the correct procedure attending a boiler breakdown?

[ShaunCorbs]

Fair enough we can agree to do that. But your inspector is wrong, or you misunderstood him. Get him to put it in writing. As I posted earlier, this is a direct lift from the regs:

(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immediately thereafter examine—

(a)​

the effectiveness of any flue;
(b)
the supply of combustion air;
(c)
its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;
(d)
its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning,
I do not see any bit saying this only applies when fitting parts. Are you sure he was not referring tp the need or otherwise of conducting a FGA?

EDIT: For some reason, copying this is affecting the text set up.​

Only says examine which could mean visual

 

[firemant]

Only says examine which could mean visual

You can VISUALLY examine gas pressure and/or the gas rate?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can VISUALLY examine gas pressure and/or the gas rate?

Gas rate you can as it says or only need one

 

[firemant]

Hi there guys i know this might sound like a silly question. I am a new learner (not qualified yet) and i just want to know the correct procedures on what you should do in an event of a boiler breakdown. For example lets say if the boiler is leaking... Do you Isolate water and gas to the boiler first? or do you have to do the usual let by and tightness test and then the other stuff?

Ibraheem, hopefully your mentor / trainers will put you right on this. Breakdown jobs range from the stupidly easy, to the practically impossible. Fault finding demands a logical approach, which (as someone else suggested) is a skill learned and developed.

Before opening your toolbox, you should first try to employ the most useful tool. The customer. Some are complete idiots, but with careful questioning you can often pinpoint the problem, before taking the case off. But never actually take their word as Gospel. Some are dishonest, some are confused, and some don't actually understand the questions.

In the absence if common sense, or to confirm your initial diagnosis, you essentially work out how far into the expected sequence the boiler is going. For example, if the ignition is trying to spark, you can be pretty sure the fan is running.

On most boilers, if the HW works, but he CG doesn't, the pump is working. But those are basic and obvious.

But do not start pulling things out before you have attempted to run the appliance, observed and listened.

And comply with 26.9, which I am sure you have come across in training.

Are you in a job, or do you intend going SE? If the latter, invest in the 3 day Baxi Course. It is excellent, and is not a sales pitch. You also get a reasonable lunch. Also join the Honeywell installers club. They offer a free (at least they used to) one day course on wiring and fault finding. It is pretty good. And the lunch is excellent, especially as it is free.

I do like lunch

 

[firemant]

Gas rate you can as it says or only need one

Seriously?

I suspect that the lack of comments from other RGI's is be cause you are a generally popular correspondent, whereas I am an infrequent visitor. If you were supporting my argument, and I yours, we would be inundated with responses.

How can you visually check a Gas Rate?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Seriously?

I suspect that the lack of comments from other RGI's is be cause you are a generally popular correspondent, whereas I am an infrequent visitor. If you were supporting my argument, and I yours, we would be inundated with responses.

How can you visually check a Gas Rate?

its not hard if you know if you dont

write the number down time then write the numbers down work it out from there or time it if imperial

or if you do know what kw should give you like

.10 is 30kw
.095 is 28kw
.08 is 24 kw
.05 is 15kw

 

[firemant]

its not hard if you know if you dont

write the number down time then write the numbers down work it out from there or time it if imperial

or if you do know what kw should give you like

.10 is 30kw
.095 is 28kw
.08 is 24 kw
.05 is 15kw

A bit of back tracking? What you are describing is actually Gas Rating. My personal preference, as it happens, to calculate (metric) is finish - start (2 mins) * 322.8 = Kw/hr.

However this farcical series of posts started when you stated:

i wouldnt do a

let by or tt
gas rate
working pressure
or fga test

i would do a visual check of the boiler
visual check of the case seals.

But now you are acknowledging that you would do a gas rate.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

A bit of back tracking? What you are describing is actually Gas Rating. My personal preference, as it happens, to calculate (metric) is finish - start (2 mins) * 322.8 = Kw/hr.

However this farcical series of posts started when you stated:

i wouldnt do a

let by or tt
gas rate
working pressure
or fga test

i would do a visual check of the boiler
visual check of the case seals.

But now you are acknowledging that you would do a gas rate.

only to keep you happy and end this debate as its going no where

if you look back you asked how you could do a visual gas rate which ive answered, didnt say i did one i just know the figures off my head

these days you could as you do it or use an app or get to know the figures gets to the same end

 

[firemant]

Okay. We can end this nonsense. As you keep twisting, and obviously do not comply with your obligations.

To the OP: be very careful about accepting advice from any forum, without double checking. This forum, in particular, is replete with guys who have little knowledge of the regulations.
It is full if inaccurate statements, for example, regarding the REQUIREMENTS for tightness testing, and the status, nature and requirements of Landlord Certs (CP12's).
Having said that, Shaun is normally one of the better ones.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

dont need to tt on land lord gas safety certificates

 

[Harvest Fields]

dont need to tt on land lord gas safety certificates

Which is absolutely terrible as it is a rented property and I believe it is more important to do it then when doing a service.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Also @ShaunCorbs & @firemant isnt what you are both describing a KW rating and not a gas rating. A gas rating for a 30kw boiler is about 3.2kw not 30kw? Or am I missing something here?

 

[firemant]

Also @ShaunCorbs & @firemant isnt what you are both describing a KW rating and not a gas rating. A gas rating for a 30kw boiler is about 3.2kw not 30kw? Or am I missing something here?

I don't quite understand your post, HF.
Probably strictly speaking, a gas rate would be measured in M3 but after saying Kw is not a gas rating, you go onto suggest it is.
A 30Kw boiler will be typically about 31/32Kw input, not 3.2. was that a typo?

 

[firemant]

Which is absolutely terrible as it is a rented property and I believe it is more important to do it then when doing a service.

You are probably correct. But the only time you HAVE to do a TT is after turning a meter back on. Not strictly necessary for a service. Unless directed so by the MIs.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I don't quite understand your post, HF.
Probably strictly speaking, a gas rate would be measured in M3 but after saying Kw is not a gas rating, you go onto suggest it is.
A 30Kw boiler will be typically about 31/32Kw input, not 3.2. was that a typo?

I mean that this is a gas rate mate

 

[firemant]

I mean that this is a gas rate mate

View attachment 35443

HF, apologies f I still have the wrong end of your stick

The chart above is, indeed, a rate chart. But the measurements are in M3, which I intimated earlier is strictly speaking the "correct" way.

Got to go to work now, will expand later, unless someone beats me to it

 

[Harvest Fields]

Ok mate. That would be good as when I was being taught on and off the job. The chart above was referred to as a gas rate.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Any more clarification on this?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

My figures are direct on the meter to give you x amount of kw

 

[Harvest Fields]

My figures are direct on the meter to give you x amount of kw

But my view is that what you are both taking about is an output rating not a gas rate.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But my view is that what you are both taking about is an output rating not a gas rate.

It is a gas rate (meter) comes out at 30kw

Eg

004.10
004.20

On the meter

 

[Harvest Fields]

It is a gas rate (meter) comes out at 30kw

Eg

004.10
004.20

On the meter

But when wou ask a manufacturer’s The Gas rate of their boiler I.e a 30kw they will tell you it is 3.0 so .100 x 30 = 3.0

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But when wou ask a manufacturer’s The Gas rate of their boiler I.e a 30kw they will tell you it is 3.0 so .100 x 30 = 3.0

Or 30 / 10.65 2.8m3h

 

[Harvest Fields]

Or 30 / 10.65 2.8m3h

I get that, but when you do this calculation 2.8 x 10.65 = 30 ish kw. The end figure which is 30 kw is not the boilers Gas rate it is an output rating.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I get that, but when you do this calculation 2.8 x 10.65 = 30 ish kw. The end figure which is 30 kw is not the boilers Gas rate it is an output rating.

I don't get what your trying to say ?

You want the input rating ?