Gas Engineers > What is the correct procedure attending a boiler breakdown?

[Harvest Fields]

its not hard if you know if you dont

write the number down time then write the numbers down work it out from there or time it if imperial

or if you do know what kw should give you like

.10 is 30kw
.095 is 28kw
.08 is 24 kw
.05 is 15kw

My point is, that this is an input/output rating dependant on how far you got with your calculations and not a gas rate.

 

[firemant]

.

HF: Like Shaun, I am slightly confused as to your line of thought. The GAS RATE is the INPUT, which arguably should be measured in M3, but we tend to do the calcs to Kw. The chart you produced, IIRC, showed the input in M3. So it IS the rate chart, as you understood.

But where are you reading your figures? The chart shows a 30Kw boiler as having a nominal input of 3.27M3.

Incidentally, that is the figure often copied onto the benchmark

 

[Harvest Fields]

I think we are arguing the same thing mate. But I call the figure in the bold circle the gas rate and the figure in the thin circle the input/output rating. Ignore the exact figures I wasn’t getting them from anywhere they were just random figures

 

[firemant]

I think we are arguing the same thing mate. But I call the figure in the bold circle the gas rate and the figure in the thin circle the input/output rating. Ignore the exact figures I wasn’t getting them from anywhere they were just random figures

View attachment 35478

Blimey, HF, they reckon a marathon is hard work .
Yes, the 30Kw (thin circle) is the nominal output - but I don't really get your " input / output rating" description. it is simply the designed Output.

The (thick circle) IS the nominal Input, therefore the "gas rate" you are looking for. However, most of us, I think, would present the "gas rate" in KW/hr's.

So, yes, essentially we are in agreement.

What was your question?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Blimey, HF, they reckon a marathon is hard work .
Yes, the 30Kw (thin circle) is the nominal output - but I don't really get your " input / output rating" description. it is simply the designed Output.

The (thick circle) IS the nominal Input, therefore the "gas rate" you are looking for. However, most of us, I think, would present the "gas rate" in KW/hr's.

So, yes, essentially we are in agreement.

What was your question?

I don’t have one it’s been a long day. Sorry mate.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Input/output

 

[firemant]

Input/output

View attachment 35480

Input/output are 2 different things on that data badge

That is a 24Kw boiler? The 24Kw is the advertised OUTPUT, but the actual MAXIMUM OUTPUT, as it happens, is 24.7Kw.
(Advertising a 24.7Kw boiler as such is not as snappy as saying "24", although I do not know why they don't just do the data plate at an Input relating to a 24Kw output. But they are not alone)

The MAX INPUT is 25.7Kw. The boiler is range ratable, between 11Kw and 25.7Kw INPUT. It is this range which you would be looking for, and verifying against, when as rating.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Input/output are 2 different things on that data badge

That is a 24Kw boiler? The 24Kw is the advertised OUTPUT, but the actual MAXIMUM OUTPUT, as it happens, is 24.7Kw.
(Advertising a 24.7Kw boiler as such is not as snappy as saying "24", although I do not know why they don't just do the data plate at an Input relating to a 24Kw output. But they are not alone)

The MAX INPUT is 25.7Kw. The boiler is range ratable, between 11Kw and 25.7Kw INPUT. It is this range which you would be looking for, and verifying against, when as rating.

I understand that mate. But what I was saying is that at college here. We are taught that the gas rating is the lower figure and the output rating is the higher figure. That is what I was saying.

 

[firemant]

I understand that mate. But what I was saying is that at college here. We are taught that the gas rating is the lower figure and the output rating is the higher figure. That is what I was saying.

Back to front, HF. Or is that a typo.? Are you still training, HF?

The Gas rate is the Consumption (Input) (higher figure), which HAS to be greater than the OUTPUT (lower figure).


(I KNOW, before someone comes back with 103% efficiency )

 

[Harvest Fields]

Back to front, HF. Or is that a typo.? Are you still training, HF?

The Gas rate is the Consumption (Input) (higher figure), which HAS to be greater than the OUTPUT (lower figure).


(I KNOW, before someone comes back with 103% efficiency )

I’m too tired to carry this on mate. I will just agree with you.

 

[firemant]

I’m too tired to carry this on mate. I will just agree with you.

Okay. But you really do need to know. It is actually not difficult. You need to speak to your trainer, if you are, in fact, still training.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Okay. But you really do need to know. It is actually not difficult. You need to speak to your trainer, if you are, in fact, still training.

Mate. Let me explain this to you. Either we have got crossed wires here or it is not me that is wrong. What it sound like you are talking about is a equivant heat input. (Not a gas rate) a gas rate is how much gas an appliance uses in 1 hour, not the figure you get once you times this figure by 10.65, or whatever calorific value you are using. (This figure is an input rating) I cannot explain it any clearer. The diagram below if the best I could find.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Okay. But you really do need to know. It is actually not difficult. You need to speak to your trainer, if you are, in fact, still training.

Mate. Let me explain this to you. Either we have got crossed wires here or it is not me that is wrong. What it sound like you are talking about is a equivant heat input. (Not a gas rate) a gas rate is how much gas an appliance uses in 1 hour, not the figure you get once you times this figure by 10.65, or whatever calorific value you are using. (This figure is an input rating) I cannot explain it any clearer. The diagram below if the best I could find.

Okay. But you really do need to know. It is actually not difficult. You need to speak to your trainer, if you are, in fact, still training.

I’ve been qualified for 12 years mate. Not ages but long enough.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

My advise is read and understand the regs FULLY. These are what we’re all working to anyway. You will get better and better with experience. But always check check check check check check check

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is that aimed at me mate. Or someone else?

 

[Lewis Lawson]

I’m a training gas engineer what is this 26.9 you refer to ?

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m a training gas engineer what is this 26.9 you refer to ?

Until you are trained you will never know mwaw wa wa wa wa

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Also @ShaunCorbs & @firemant isnt what you are both describing a KW rating and not a gas rating. A gas rating for a 30kw boiler is about 3.2kw not 30kw? Or am I missing something here?

3.2 M3/H

 

[Harvest Fields]

3.2 M2/H

3.2 m3/H

 

[Harvest Fields]

3.2 M3/H

Nice edit.

 

[Aire]

dont need to tt on land lord gas safety certificates

Just been reading through this thread and this popped out at me. If we don't need to tightness test for a landlords cert why does it ask to tick the box for satisfactory tightness test on the cert? I'm not disagreeing with you, I've only been qualified 20 months so just asking for my own knowledge.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Just been reading through this thread and this popped out at me. If we don't need to tightness test for a landlords cert why does it ask to tick the box for satisfactory tightness test on the cert? I'm not disagreeing with you, I've only been qualified 20 months so just asking for my own knowledge.

dont need to fill in every box on the report some dont even list the tt on the report depends on pad manufacturer

 

[Aire]

That seems backwards to me. Is there a reason for not testing the gas? My logic is, your there to check the gas within the property is safe so how can we say it's safe without testing the gas.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That seems backwards to me. Is there a reason for not testing the gas? My logic is, your there to check the gas within the property is safe so how can we say it's safe without testing the gas.

You there doing a check and no a service

So in short the minimum eg fga, burner or input and your off etc

 

[dan_the_plumber]

I’m sorry, but you’re earning decent money to be there to be thorough and do a proper job. I will always tightness test and wouldn’t want to work with anyone who didn’t