Gas safe regs - what gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons?

[Deleted member 25704]

Its an interesting discussion and I understand what the op is gettng at. Competence is difficult notion to pin down and it has elluded the medical profession to such an extent they no longer use the term.

However, from this thread, it is clear to see that competence and Gas Safe registration has become a kind of religion, with no one willing to question the concept or demand a more detailed definition. Having read the recent Gas Competence Review, it does not seem to have explained it satifactorily either. However, we can see the problems in store, just from posts on this forum.

For example:

Am looking to shadow/work with gas safe engineer in the EN postcode area at no cost to you. I am gas safe reg, new to trade, have own tools and annalyser, need the experience before I re-locate back home after working and re-training in the area.Would be interested in instalation and fault finding. Phone 07855814337.

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...lic-forum/47387-experience.html#ixzz2JO15wXbc

The above person is GSR but contradicts this:

A competent person would have sufficient knowledge, training and Confidence to work out how to carry out any task in the relevant area of work.
Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/c...aken-other-tradespersons-2.html#ixzz2JO1YnTeJ

 

[dontknowitall]

... How many jobs have you done where you've ended up charging your customer more because you could not diagnose a problem correctly the first time around (be it your lack of experience, or just the nature of the problem) ...

NONE!!

You will never gain a recommendation this way and recommendations are the best form of advertising.

We're not all rogues.

 

[lame plumber]

Competence is difficult notion to pin down QUOTE]

competence is a doddle to define in regard to working on gas systems. A person who has trained and passed the relevent assessments laid down by the relevant training authorities and then gains membership of the relevant registration body.

So if you have got your gas qualifications ie ccn1 and boiler or fire tickets and then join Gas Safe Register, you are deemed competant in the eyes of the law to work on fires and boilers and nothing else is deemed competent in this fine country (england and the various attached bits at present)

 

[gav8]

it may be disinformation but it is also common sense surely?

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

 

[TBServices]

Competence relating to gas refers to a member of a "competent persons scheme", in this case gas safe does it not?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

nope the internet is business biggest danger

 

[gav8]

competence is a doddle to define in regard to working on gas systems. A person who has trained and passed the relevent assessments laid down by the relevant training authorities and then gains membership of the relevant registration body.

So if you have got your gas qualifications ie ccn1 and boiler or fire tickets and then join Gas Safe Register, you are deemed competant in the eyes of the law to work on fires and boilers and nothing else is deemed competent in this fine country (england and the various attached bits at present)

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

 

[hammers4spanner]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

 

[gav8]

nope the internet is business biggest danger

Care to expand on that? In the past few years people who are on GSR have uploaded hundreds of videos in relation to plumbing, TomPlum and Plumberparts, to name but two, they have covered everything that they teach you in college and then some, an average householder with a desire to learn, could literally watch all their videos and with a bit of practice, could easily be competent enough to fit a bathroom, re-pipe a house, install rads, water tanks etc etc

I can't see it effecting business that much, at the end of the day, if someone wants to learn, then that should be their right.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

I mentioned 'religion' of GSR earlier because few seem willing to question the rules, process or law.

As a long time plumber, I am also a scientist with an open mind.

As for the op's quest for 'root cause analysis' I suggest he reads Matthew Crawford's book 'shop craft is soul craft' which will explain better than I, that there is always something we do not know. Furthermore, getting diagnosis wrong, is all about experience and learning - I have got plenty of stuff wrong in my time, and will do in the future.

I suggest the op asks those in the medical profession if they ever get any diagnosis wrong...because root cause analysis has alluded them on many an occassion.

 

[lame plumber]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

competence is what you have to prove to be legally allowed to work on gas! ability and experience are something else. As for as putting videos on u tube for gas appliances another saying comes to mind: " A little knowledge is dangerous" All the videos I have seen on u tube in regard to Agas and boilers and the like never cover the whole story and often miss out some of the major safety aspects, which puts people at risk. I expect yours will put more people at risk if they think its that easy then they can have a go!

 

[gav8]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

 

[TBServices]

There's nothing useful relating to gas because its not appropriate! Lol. I still think it should be illegal to buy gas carrying parts without GS registration.

 

[Whl4852]

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

How many years experience each?

 

[Dotty]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

And you will NOT be advertising those video's on this forum.

How incredibly irresponsible!

We will not be privy to, nor part contribitutive thereof, to ANY information that promotes illegal working on a boiler!

 

[kay-jay]

nope the internet is business biggest danger

Agreed. Who wants to run a business when you can look at big knockers all day

 

[gav8]

And you will NOT be advertising those video's on this forum.

How incredibly irresponsible!

We will not be privy to, nor part contribitutive thereof, to ANY information that promotes illegal working on a boiler!

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

 

[Dotty]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

It doesn't matter how you dress it up or how you attempt to justify your actions, You are not advertising said video's on this forum.

And your so called 'legal specialists' need to bone up on the gas regs.

 

[Plumb Ugly]

Gas safe registration is a minimum competance level for working on gas appliances it doesn't make you an expert by itself but here's the clincher it does mean you should be able to work SAFELY without either causing an unsafe situation or over looking one. If you aren't gsr you can't prove this to be the case

 

[lame plumber]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

if you are justifying videos for teaching purpouses, remember most students just go to sleep when the video screen comes down. the best way to teach students is to explain each item using the books and awhite board, then give them actual examples to examine and learn with, far better than another video!

 

[Whl4852]

I knew there would be a lot of hostility in regards gas/boiler videos on a forum like this. The fact remains, up and coming plumbers that are in college or on courses are crying out for videos like this, which completely demystifys the whole thing, makes it clearer and easier to understand and shows it is not has hard as the textbooks make out it is at NVQ lv3.

It is not about promoting illegal working on appliances in the home, but the distribution of knowledge for any that want it, we have already seen legal specialists in regards the publishing of such information and Youtube have no problem with hosting it.

Why would we want videos at college when we use the real thing?

 

[gav8]

And your so called 'legal specialists' need to bone up on the gas regs.

They are the 4th largest Law firm in London and are part of the Magic Circle, you may want to google them, we choose them for a very specific reason.

I thought it would be the Admins we would approach in regards advertising on this forum, not the forum moderators? We are not going to need to advertise most likely, bar Youtube obviously.

 

[gav8]

Why would we want videos at college when we use the real thing?

Why are videos on youtube, in relation to Plumbing, packed (in the comments) with Plumbers? Go look if you don't believe me.

 

[Whl4852]

Why are videos on youtube, in relation to Plumbing, packed (in the comments) with Plumbers? Go look if you don't believe me.

Why would a plumber watch ' DIY basic soldering' come on mate, get a grip on reality and stop dreaming

 

[Dotty]

They are the 4th largest Law firm in London and are part of the Magic Circle, you may want to google them, we choose them for a very specific reason.

I thought it would be the Admins we would approach in regards advertising on this forum, not the forum moderators? We are not going to need to advertise most likely, bar Youtube obviously.

And being in the magic circle renders them fit to advise on the legalities of promoting DIY gas repair?

What do they recommend? "Don't try this at home boys and girls!"

Yeah, cos that'd stand up in a court of law when Silly Billy is standing there pointing his finger at you after having killed his family after watching one of your self help films.

And admin take their lead from us in matters such as this.

Besides, Manufacturers have done it already, consulted their legal teams and only show these videos as part of an authorised training course.