Have I hired a cowboy?

[Sylvergrunge]

We have a leak in a central heating pipe under the tiled floor in our downstairs bathroom. The water was seeping up through the floor. I called a plumber and he lifted the tiles and dug to reveal the pipe and find the leak. He has repaired the leak using compression joints (also repaired larger 28mm pipe which he punctured when digging), which he says are more reliable than soldering, but we have had constant leaks from each pipe every time the water is turned back on. Water is now off and boiler not working, so he is due back today. I have researched and found that compression joints should not be used under concrete and joints should be soldered. I also read pipes should be protected with Denso tape, but he says they need no protection. He is also going to fill the hole with rapid set tiling adhesive before refitting the tiles. Am I right to be worried?

 

[Sylvergrunge]

It is on the internal bend. Heating is off and so is water so the system is slowly emptying.

Trying to phone plumbers but none are able to come out for weeks 😫

 

[gmartine]

Ok don't panick, no further damage is really being done 'cept you're a bit cold.

Ok you need to clean that pipe around the leak abit better than it is cos I'd like you to try a marine/weatherproof epoxy putty otherwise it won't adhere properly. What's your nearest retailer, any plumbers merchants, Screwfix, Halfords etc?

 

[Sylvergrunge]

Screwfix and toolstation are close

 

[gmartine]

Halfords?

Evo-stik Hard & Fast Metal Epoxy Putty | Halfords UK

Shop the latest Evo-stik Hard & Fast Metal Epoxy Putty easy to mix steel reinforced epoxy putty dries in 10 minutes at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

Never used it, pipe needs to be clean though otherwise it'll come off like the last lot.

 

[gmartine]

If you can wait from Amazon Prime...

PC Marine Epoxy putty or Jenolite Copper repair.

They all say they can repair when wet but it can be difficult to get adhesion so no guarantees. Proper fix is replacement so temp fix only.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

I am pretty sure this is what the last plumber used and it just came off

 

[gmartine]

Probably but then it was stuck on a dirty pipe, hence I keep going on about cleaning it.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

Cleaning it now. How clean does it need ro be?

 

[gmartine]

As clean as pos, looking like copper not undersea treasure.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

Scrubbed most of it off I can't get underneath though.

Plumber called. Hasn't got time to replace the pipe so he has passed details onto another plumber that might! Hopefully plumber number 3 will be able to sort it 🤞🤞🤞

 

[Sylvergrunge]

Not heard from plumber number 3 yet, so have ordered Jenolite. Thought I would try amalgamating tape as a short term til Jenolite gets here. It isn't pretty but it has certainly stalled the leak a bit, which is something. At least I might get a full (albeit cold) nights sleep tonight without having to wake up and hoover up water!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Piece of rubber and a jubilee clip ?

 

[Sylvergrunge]

Piece of rubber and a jubilee clip ?

Looks like it is holding for a minute ( just a tiny puddle under in the past 2 hours, although the heating isn't on so not under pressure. The issue is where the leak is. Right on the internal bend so hard to clip, or do anything to!

 

[Dan]

I think there is a bug in the latest version of the forum software. For the last few days it's not been possible to click-through to pictures/video from the thumbnails.

@Dan / @Lou – Are you aware of this issue?

Try now

 

[Ric2013]

I see. You can't solder because the pipe is in a dip and therefore full of water. You seem to have got it reasonably clean so adhesive now seems possible.

Surely a plumber could take up a further tile to the left of the gas pipe, run a new passover OVER the pipe and, while it will be messy, the urgency will be taken out of the situation. Or bypass the pipework somehow, clip a new section along the wall? Although I am aware the difficulty seems to be finding the plumber.

As for the rubber/jubilee clip idea, I think it might be a good one, but perhaps if you can get some twistable wire that won't snap as soon as you try to twist it, that might be easier than the Jubilee given the poor access. If you do try again with sealant, a clip or wire on top could be a good idea. But if tape is working...

 

[Chuck]

Try now

Works for me now.

Many thanks

 

[Sylvergrunge]

I have the Jenolite and am currently draining the system (typically the leak is at the very lowest point of the entire system so it is taking a while!

In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?

 

[gmartine]

If I knew you could drain the system and dry out the leaking joint somewhat I would've suggested you use some JB Weld epoxy. Make a small saturated fabric wrap with it and wrap the joint but ideally you have to leave it for 24hrs to cure and ideally has to be dry with no back pressure from any water.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

If I knew you could drain the system and dry out the leaking joint somewhat I would've suggested you use some JB Weld epoxy. Make a small saturated fabric wrap with it and wrap the joint but ideally you have to leave it for 24hrs to cure and ideally has to be dry with no back pressure from any water.

I didn't know I could until today lol. Good old YouTube!

 

[Ric2013]

In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?

For a start that's the lockshield valve, so you should probably be looking at changing the other one (the wheelhead valve)*. Secondly, you're measuring it wrong. Inside that big nut will be a hexagonal recess for a kind of large Allen key designed for removing radiator valve tails. The type of connexion your radiator has is now less common, so you'll need to wind out the whole valve tail which will screw into the radiator. The radiator itself finishes flush. You probably won't see the joint, because the tail has been painted over heavily.

Concerned you may be slightly out of your depth, but I suppose if you want to learn, it's not a bad place to start. Worst case scenario is you have to blank off the radiator pipe for a while and remain one radiator down - so if you aren't competent with fitting a compression stopend correctly first, buy a number of copper olives and a couple of compression stopends in 15mm size (will also work on 1/2") then you can practice on a scrap bit of pipe connected to a hose.

*I say probably because most TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return of the radiator - some are directional, so you need to check the arrow on the body and make sure you fit it so it points in the direction of water flow which might mean you HAVE to fit it where the current lockshield valve is. Usually the lockshield valve will be on the return - the cooler end of the radiator.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

For a start that's the lockshield valve, so you should probably be looking at changing the other one (the wheelhead valve)*. Secondly, you're measuring it wrong. Inside that big nut will be a hexagonal recess for a kind of large Allen key designed for removing radiator valve tails. The type of connexion your radiator has is now less common, so you'll need to wind out the whole valve tail which will screw into the radiator. The radiator itself finishes flush. You probably won't see the joint, because the tail has been painted over heavily.

Concerned you may be slightly out of your depth, but I suppose if you want to learn, it's not a bad place to start. Worst case scenario is you have to blank off the radiator pipe for a while and remain one radiator down - so if you aren't competent with fitting a compression stopend correctly first, buy a number of copper olives and a couple of compression stopends in 15mm size (will also work on 1/2") then you can practice on a scrap bit of pipe connected to a hose.

*I say probably because most TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return of the radiator - some are directional, so you need to check the arrow on the body and make sure you fit it so it points in the direction of water flow which might mean you HAVE to fit it where the current lockshield valve is. Usually the lockshield valve will be on the return - the cooler end of the radiator.

Sorry, I know I put the wrong end in the pic. It was just easier ro show measurement on that end as I had just drained that rad from that end, and both sides are same valve length.

I appreciate your honesty saying I am out of my depth. I will happily try my hand at most things, but always happy to call in the experts if it is above me. Hence asking here first 😊 I'll just wait until I can finally get hold of an available local plumber and add it on to my jobs list for them 😆

 

[Sylvergrunge]

So, system drained. Pipe cleaned and sanded. Jenolite applied. Left to cure for a day and system refilled and sentinel leak sealer added. Heating and water put back on this evening. New leak spotted (other end of the same fixing) and quickly plugged with Jenolite and wrapped in Amalgamating tape. Old leak still active and back to its old tricks. I could cry 😔

 

[Ric2013]

I could cry 😔

You've got the pipe doing that for you though

It is seriously surprising how hard it is to hold back water even at a low pressure. I once tried to mend a stolen joint on a private supply that had only a few metres' head from the stream inlet to the joint by using some non-elastic denim pasted in silicone to seal the joint, a wrapping of old inner tube to cover the fabric, and then a wire binding to hold it all together and take the strain of the water pressure. I was convinced it would work, but it totally didn't. This wasn't a paid job, please note. I still need to learn the subtle art of bodging... some people can do stuff like this and have it last 30 years!

 

[WC1]

So, system drained. Pipe cleaned and sanded. Jenolite applied. Left to cure for a day and system refilled and sentinel leak sealer added. Heating and water put back on this evening. New leak spotted (other end of the same fixing) and quickly plugged with Jenolite and wrapped in Amalgamating tape. Old leak still active and back to its old tricks. I could cry 😔

This is how every plumber learns. (Not the tape and leak sealer bit, the bit where you do your best and really think you've got it sorted and it goes and leaks somewhere else)
It is hard.

 

[Sylvergrunge]

It is seriously surprising how hard it is to hold back water even at a low pressure.

I was convinced it had worked as was all bone dry for a while, then it found a pathway and boom!!!

I am normally a pretty good bodger, but plumbing is beyond me. I take my hat off to you guys.

We are at the point of calling in British Gas to put in a whole new system (combi boiler to get rid of the tank and the need for this stupid pipe) and bypass all the floor pipes completely. I am so done with this leak. My carpets are damp as it is now seeping up through the concrete floor in the hallway too 😔