High gas usage for boiler.

[stevedurban]

Dumb can be the smartest in the end as long as you don't need room temp control to the nearest 0.1 or 0.2C.

So that was tados opinion - and the reason we made it so that only downstairs can call for heat. The others TRV’s are just set so that the rooms are not too hot.

I found when we knocked the bedrooms down lower (or turned them off during the day) - the downstairs zone was working harder/longer - I presume trying to bring the whole house up to temp - without the radiators in bedrooms etc helping!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Where is the stat placed ?

 

[stevedurban]

How many rooms are you maintaining at 21C, the whole house?.

Yes - bedrooms - bathrooms are 20/21 - but they can’t call for heat. They just make sure the rooms do not go over 20/21

 

[stevedurban]

Where is the stat placed ?

We had it in the hall way for a while - but now moved into lounge a middle wall of the house - centre of the room.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes - bedrooms - bathrooms are 20/21 - but they can’t call for heat. They just make sure the rooms do not go over 20/21

Why not use normal trvs are they connected to a hub ?

 

[stevedurban]

Why not use normal trvs are they connected to a hub ?

I put them in because originally - when I was trying to get ontop of the high gas usage - I programmed them to be off all day in the bedrooms and upstairs - as we obviously were not using them. But when I realised it didn’t affect the gas usage - and if anything the house felt colder and was struggling to heat - I just turned them back into dumb TRV’s basically.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And if you turn heating off but turn let’s say upstairs bedroom with a tado trv in on the boiler doesn’t fire ? Might be worth a test

 

[stevedurban]

And if you turn heating off but turn let’s say upstairs bedroom with a tado trv in on the boiler doesn’t fire ? Might be worth a test

Correct - in the tado app - you have to tell each room which controller to use to call for heat - or you can set “none” - which is what every room other than “downstairs” is set to.

 

[John.g]

I suppose, at the end of the day, if one is keeping the whole house including bathrooms at 21C then one one can expect high energy demand, I consume ~ 15,000kwh (oil) per annum but if I heated my whole house to 21C I would expect ~ 22,000kwh

 

[stevedurban]

I suppose, at the end of the day, if one is keeping the whole house including bathrooms at 21C then one one can expect high energy demand, I consume ~ 15,000kwh (oil) per annum but if I heated my whole house to 21C I would expect ~ 22,000kwh

Id probably be happy with 22000!!! 😀

Thanks for all your helps Guys! I sense we’re running out of road and I just need to accept my house now takes a lot more to heat!

Global warming? (Manchester is global cooling I think!)


Just one last question if I can - is there anything in the boiler that - if it wasn’t working properly could be causing it to run/burn more than it should? taking the view that 3 services have all found the basics to be ok (eg the oxygen/gas mix etc)

 

[Chuck]

185kwh x 365 days is 67525kwh. Is that a normal Amount? Maybe I have unrealistic views? Id checked online and it seemed to suggest around 10-15000 was average to high for a 4 bed house.

My annual gas consumption is 26,000 kW hr (twice the national average), which is for a relatively poorly insulated five bed + three reception rooms house, most of which has to be kept at 21°C 24/7 because a family member is infirm and has to be kept warm.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nope sorry to say no smoking gun

 

[stevedurban]

My annual gas consumption is 26,000 kW hr (twice the national average), which is for a relatively poorly insulated five bed + three reception rooms house, most of which has to be kept at 21°C 24/7 because a family member is infirm and has to be kept warm.

So I would say we’re probably similar in setup. 5 bed 3 reception room (open plan) and always at 21

Im not sure if the house would be classed as poorly insulated though? Has full cavity wall insulation - had a loft conversion done to regs with double layer of super foil over the whole thing.

The only part that needs attention is the front door a currently wood - that’s being replaced next week!

But pretty much all of that has been the same for the past 10 years! And only the last 2 has seen the increase.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know it might sound weird but is / does it have cavity wall as a few new builds have been reported as having hollow spots etc

 

[stevedurban]

I know it might sound weird but is / does it have cavity wall as a few new builds have been reported as having hollow spots etc

It’s an older house - 1960’s and had insualtion blown in about 10 years ago before we moved in.

 

[John.g]

Would you mind just recapping briefly
What exactly has changed apart from energy consumption in the past few years re your control system.

 

[stevedurban]

Would you mind just recapping briefly
What exactly has changed apart from energy consumption in the past few years re your control system.

The only thing I can remember being changed was the meter. I don’t remember the change in the bills happening straight away though. The smart meter always used to show £3-4 a day total for gas and electricity.

Tado has always been in since we moved in. I added digital TRV’s after the issue to try and help.

 

[John.g]

The meter seemed to check out OK from all our calculations, I still think the key to the answer might be hidden somewhere here IF CH usage can be reasonably ruled out?

Somethings not adding up now anyway Steve. (maybe good)
You used 1257kwh of gas, apparently for HW heating. This equates to 43.4kwh/day for that 29day billing period. This equals to 36.9kwh/day at a boiler efficiency of 85%.
Assuming cold water at 12C heated to 60C, Litres of hot water = 36.9*860/(60-12), 661Litres.
This would equate to 1133 LPD at 40C.
Your actual water usage for both May and June was 460LPD for each month so ????.

Don't know how they came up with a estimated gas usage of 60550kwh/annum

 

[stevedurban]

The meter seemed to check out OK from all our calculations, I still think the key to the answer might be hidden somewhere here IF CH usage can be reasonably ruled out?

I thought hot water has been ruled now out on the basis it’s now only one 2 hours a day?

 

[John.g]

That's why I posted this again, its pretty obvious that DHW usage couldn't account for the difference and as I said IF CH can reasonably be ruled out then ???. If one assumed DHW @ 200 litres/day at 60C = 12kwh so 31kwh unaccounted for. I still have a suspicion that the boiler was enabled and firing on its own stat which wouldn't take long to dissipate that 31kwh especially if that ABV was/is passing.

 

[Shower Engineer]

Any idea what the valve I have arrowed, which looks as though it could be partially tured on, is for?

Just curious....

 

[stevedurban]

Any idea what the valve I have arrowed, which looks as though it could be partially tured on, is for?

View attachment 72874

Just curious....

Sure.it’s to drain the system apparently? Runs off outside?

 

[stevedurban]

That's why I posted this again, its pretty obvious that DHW usage couldn't account for the difference and as I said IF CH can reasonably be ruled out then ???. If one assumed DHW @ 200 litres/day at 60C = 12kwh so 31kwh unaccounted for. I still have a suspicion that the boiler was enabled and firing on its own stat which wouldn't take long to dissipate that 31kwh especially if that ABV was/is passing.

Just to add to the confirmation - here is yesterdays usage.

We were all out around 9am - so the heating was disabled - however the hot water still heated 11-1.

So this shows that when the heating isn’t on - there is 0 gas usage.

 

[John.g]

That seems OK, elect use of 14.11Kwh & gas usage, (5.61x11.33), 63Kwh. I used 82kwh yesterday for CH+DHW. So everything seems fine? and the big problem was (last) summer usage?? You will just have to keep monitoring usage IMO, you have a excellent reporting system, just use gas meter to verify same.
Your bill below, for last summer gives 11.33kwh/M3 so used that, above.

Last summer you used a average of 43.36Kwh/day, for 29 days, apparently for DHW only, that equates to 775 LPD of hot water at 60C or 1328 LPD at 40C, enough to wash a small army?.

 

[stevedurban]

That seems OK, elect use of 14.11Kwh & gas usage, (5.61x11.33), 63Kwh. I used 82kwh yesterday for CH+DHW. So everything seems fine? and the big problem was (last) summer usage?? You will just have to keep monitoring usage IMO, you have a excellent reporting system, just use gas meter to verify same.
Your bill below, for last summer gives 11.33kwh/M3 so used that, above.

Last summer you used a average of 43.36Kwh/day, for 29 days, apparently for DHW only, that equates to 775 LPD of hot water at 60C or 1328 LPD at 40C, enough to wash a small army?.


View attachment 72985

Thanks John. Yes yesterday was ok when the heating was not on

But the day before was this — which I think shows the boiler was almost flat out the whole day pretty much

And this was how it heated the house