Indirect system

[ste b]

Hi good to be back for tips and advice from the forum,having done a few jobs since completing my c and g course i have not yet come accross working with indirect system,everyone i been to had combi"s and the work has been easy, i know what i about to ask is easy to you guys here but i am just making sure before i do the work,simple washbasin and toilet installation like for like,but having not come accross this type of common house-hold system i just need a little help,i pretty sure i dont have to drain all the cylinder of water to change the hot water taps,my question is about which valves to turn off,am i right in saying turn off the gate valve for the hot water which is located near to the vessel then run the hot water tap till it stops running,also do i have have to turn off the iso valve located in the attic or does that not matter,also do i need to tie up ball cock in loft for cold water draining to change the cw taps and wc,or should i just turn off the gate valve/iso valve located under the cistern.......i know its sounds amatuerish but i never touched this system and to be honest college just showed us how to plumb in a vessel,lol. cheers guys any info appreciated.......

 

[SimonJohns]

For safety and being stuck with a stuck gate valve when you finish I would isolate cold water mains and run hot taps until they stop.

You will end up with a empty cold water storage cistern. And you won't have to tie up ball valve
The Hws cylinder will still be full but this won't come out of the taps

If you going to do an immersion change you will need to drain a small amount of water from the cylinder

Best of luck. Photos when you finish please.

Btw. Check the taps you buy are suitable for a low pressure installation

 

[Best]

Usually the feeds from the cold tank will have valves on them. Just turn them off & run taps till water stops. If they are gate valves, be gentle with them & don't turn off very tight, but they often need renewed - so keep spare ones.
You may have air locks. Only other way, is to bung the pipes in the inside of tank.

Edit :- ... Unless, as Simonjohns has just said, you drain the entire cold tank.

 

[Simon F]

are you saying that hot and cold are both from the cwsc or just the hot water feed?

 

[SimonJohns]

It's possible that the cold is fed from the same cistern. But it is referred to as a cold water cistern

To check if the cold taps are fed from it. Put you finder over a cold tap. And turn on. If you get wet. It's mains fed. If you don't. Its cistern fed.

 

[ste b]

Cheers,tell you what i will do before and after pics,always take pics for future ref,so thats no probs..........

 

[ste b]

Just getting back to my question just to be sure,simon johns,when you say isolate cw mains,do you mean the tap under-neath sink unit where it enters the building or isolate in loft space,i sure there is 100+ litres in the cw storage cistern,lot of water to waste.....i thought there would have been iso valves/gate valves on the hot and cold distribution pipes,am i wrong?.....other than that i gona do exactly as you say,mains off and run taps untill they stop,.....re-plaement taps are ok thanks for that info,

 

[southcoastboile]

easyest thing would be to iscolate via ballofix valves on existing pipework if there are any. If not you can use the gate valve that is normaly fitted to iscolate the hot water side, it will be on the cold feed to the cylinder, it is always the pipe that is closest to the bottom of the cylinder so follow it back untill you see the gate valve. The cold may be fed from tank in which case you will need to drain tank as simon has said and yes turn mains off into house. You could be lucky and it may be mains fed. There may be a risk of gate valve sticking if you do it my way but you should be ok. best thing is to look up system drawings on google so you actuly understand it as if you dont and you get a problem you will not no what to iscolate. Hope this helps and good luck

 

[SimonJohns]

The only reason why I say to isolate the mains and waste the water is purely because of ;
Sticking gate valves
Shearing valves
Leaking valve
Slight pass on valve


But most of all. Less risk.

If you read back through all the posts you will see. Be careful of sticking. Leaking. Weeping etc

This way. The only valve you risk damaging is the mcw stop valve.

 

[southcoastboile]

agreed

 

[ste b]

Ok guys i not taking any chances,isolate mains feed and drain the storage,just out of coincidense,approx how long will it take to drain and re-fill,definatly quicker than going out new gate valves etc etc,im sure........thanks again,appreciated..........sb

 

[SimonJohns]

take about 20min to empty cwsc
take a few mins to refill, depending on mcw flow and pressure

 

[Resolute]

Or bung the tank?!

 

[SimonJohns]

Or bung the tank?!

good call

 

[heliotrope]

take about 20min to empty cwsc
take a few mins to refill

And how many hours chasing air locks?:shocked:

Go with Resolute's post:wink:

 

[ste b]

Lol,ok what does bunging tank en-tale,i never done this but have heard it can be done,what do you actually bung tank with?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry but you did say that you have done a C&G course in plumbing, and they did-not teach you about a basic plumbing system, and how to replace taps ect . I think if you paid for this course you need to ask for a refund, :angry_smile:

 

[Resolute]

To bung the tank you need to get a bung set (or improvise) and then just stick the correct size bung into the relevant draw offs in the bottom of the CWSC. Check no water flows through the outlets and away you go.

 

[ste b]

i know jts,the teachers were a waste of space,didnt want to answer any questions,to be honest i not sure if they were plumbers like they said,they spoke about it but we didnt actually learn things such as draining systems for tap replacement etc etc,and bunging systems was"nt mentioned,with taps we just took one apart to identify rubber etc etc..................one lad on the course had leaks everywhere,the teachers could not fix,i had too do it lol,and he still passed the course,he even managed to tear all the thread on top of storage tank which caused it to leak,the course was a joke to be honest,and as i have said before a lot of the work i done has been with combi"s so bathroom suites are no trouble,this is the first job with in direct system,and its been 4 yrs since college.....cheers

 

[jtsplumbing]

I can-not believe that you have been doing this for 4 years and not come accross a basic system, if I were you I would think about trying to spend at least one day a week with some one who can show you how to do things, How have you been earning a living if you do-not understand the basic`s, Are you not worried about the damage you could cause ?? This is the sort of thing you should have cover`d in the first couple of weeks. What collage did you go to ? are they still training people ? if so they need to be reported!! Did you have to pay ?

 

[scotty plumber]

I went to college for 3years during my apprenticeship and i admit to learning very little at college! It was a waste of time for myself and i can kind of see his point ( a little ) they did not teach me any very basic stuff like changing washers etc but more thing's like bylaw's and distances between pipe clip's etc and as a 16 year old it was in one ear and straight out the other!

 

[philtheflush]

and thats why this forum is important you learn a great deal if you look at all the problems people have and seeethe solutions that are given in time you tend to remeber when out on jobs

 

[jtsplumbing]

So whats the point of these collage`s if they are not teaching you guys , at least the basic`s of plumbing B4 you go out into the world.

 

[scotty plumber]

I learn't all my basic knowledge via my journeyman and just learning myself, i would not thank my old college for any of it!

 

[Best]

I knew of a lecturer who had building qualifications longer than your arm. He built his own house & later sold it. The entire house was a DIY disaster, except the kitchen units, which were good.
The storage tank had a very large part of it like a tissue paper - obviously melted with a blow lamp, & had to be thrown out. Almost all the rustic bricks on the chimney were upside down.
If they don't know these basics, they shouldn't be teaching.