Info for people considering fast tracking

[smartallick]

why are there so many negative comments?
Does learning this from a young age at college or Uni etc mean its better than distance learning?

I'm a Project Manager and was laid off last year when BSF was axed. Next to nothing since. No money equals no projects equals no jobs.
Back in the good days the money was great but with up to 6hrs travelling per day it takes its toll.
Now i'm not saying its rosey here or there but if a late 30's guy like me wants to retrain whilst trying to pay bills, what other choices do we have?
Too old for college, too old for apprenticeships (if there are any of these left).
So the only avenue is something like this.
For me it's about quality of life, less of a commute and frankly i've had enough of projects inefficiencies, wasting money, failed deliveries, changing politics etc that cause so much aggro each day.
I suspect plumbing also has its down sides but id like to be the one to find out.
I'd like to work for someone. I've been self employed for years and it has good and bad points.

I'm only part of my way through one of these courses and i'm finding it flexible to allow me to try to find soem work to pay the bills whilst i learn.
I've been very fortunate that a plumber allowed me to help him with a load of new pipe work installation.
He showed me the very basics and allowed me to solder, bend, install radiators, help drain the system and also threw some questions at me on some topics.

So come on folk, its not our fault we chose this path, maybe we think the grass is greener but let us try to find out.
For one i'd be losing masses financially but then its not as important for me now as my priorities have changed.

no offence to anyone, just my thoughts at this early stage.

Hi Hutchey,

I'm new to this myself. I am thinking about starting the new 6189 course and also have a plumber willing to help me through it with the onsite visits from the NVQ assessors. As you have experienced the courses would you advise this route being 35 and wanting to change jobs into plumbing. Nice to see someone not been so negative about it all.

 

[fuzzy]

you are confusing negative with realistic. I can be as positive as you like many sales people i mean centre advisors will be positive. Just pay them the money and they will be very positive, i garantee it

 

[GQuigley67]

were not being negative we are being realistic, the amount of people i know with experience that arent working the now is unreal, if they cant get a job then how do you expect to get one with your 6129 or whatever its called ?

 

[Hutchey]

there's mass unemployment accross the board. Some builders, electricians and plumbers i know have weeks of work stacked up - other have very little if any.
All i want is the chance to at least try something different. Either way right now i have nothing to lose as no work is no work!
Nowhere is taking on apprentices and colleges told me i was too old so what can you do.
I'm not sure if i'd recommend it or not as not being on this long at all. Only 9 modules in and on the Water Regs bit now.
Right now, for me this feels like the good thing to do.

 

[Hutchey]

the nvq bit is worth checking up on though. not just the 61?? bit.

 

[GQuigley67]

the NVQ is essential if you want to be classed as a plumber, you wont be recognised as one without it, i.e CSCS cards CIPHE membership etc

 

[Gavin]

It's amazing people are still forking out big ££££ for courses that leave them high and dry. It's down to you to research the career you are looking into. How thick do you have to be to go into something where it costs you a fortune to be not qualified and there is barely a lick of work about?

The eyes see only what the mind wants. The suckers who are lured into parting with cash for these courses deserve everything they get.

 

[Hutchey]

i think that's a very narrow minded view Gavin
If you were looking at getting into my line of work, you'd be looking at retraining and having to beg for work, pay extortionate amounts for some courses (some are cheapish), spending ages trawling through manuals and doing practicals (in some cases too)

with this type of attitude no wonder this country gets a bad reputation with its workforce.

 

[johnmcginty]

I can't believe it took them cihpe that long to put this info on their website, even last year if you went on it it said itself there were a shortage of plumbers...crazy... I mean I did fasttrack back in the day and I only pull in £1100 a week ...never mind this crazy £1200 a week nonesense

 

[tamz]

I think i have posted this link before but here it is again
http://www.snijib.org/documents/PolicyPaperNo1FAstTrackTraining300909final.pdf

and another quote
TRAINING SCHOOLS ROBBING STUDENTS
Industry unites against ‘rogue trainers’

Training schools which offer qualifications and then fail to deliver are costing students thousands of pounds, says the Plumbing and Heating Industry Alliance (PHIA). The Alliance, which represents some 20-trade bodies with over 30,000 members in the UK, is campaigning to put an end to what it calls ‘rogue trainers’. PHIA chairman, Chris Sneath says, “There’s a crazy situation where anyone can set themselves up as a training school and claim to teach someone to be a qualified plumber in as little as four weeks. Needless to say, these get rich quick merchants charge a fortune - I’ve heard of as much as £5000 - but the would-be plumbers parting with their money end up with virtually nothing, certainly not the means to start a legitimate career in our industry. It’s nothing short of daylight robbery.”

The industry’s accepted qualification for a plumber is National or Scottish Vocational Qualification (NVQ or SVQ) at Level 3. Typically this takes a minimum of two to three years training on the job, combined with study at a recognised training provider – such as college of further education. Chris Sneath again: “The entire plumbing and heating industry recognises the NVQ at level 3, a completed formal apprenticeship or appropriate experience over many years as the minimum for a legitimate plumber. Un-regulated trainers will often turn out cowboy plumbers, with all the risks to public health that entails. But sad to say, the government doesn’t want to know. I’ve personally spoken to government representatives but their attitude is to claim they don’t want to interfere in what they call ‘free market practice”.

The Plumbing & Heating Industry Alliance is asking the media to support its campaign by refusing advertising from these rogue trainers. “We often see adverts for them contained in newspaper career supplements,” says Chris Sneath. “We do realise that it’s not always easy to instantly recognise the good from the bad but we at the Alliance are very happy to offer advice.” The PHIA hopes that its campaign will help to eradicate what has become a problem across the country, with countless thousands of pounds being lost by innocent people seeking a career in our industry.

The Plumbing & Heating Industry Alliance includes:

• The Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering (IPHE)
• The Heating and Ventilating Contractors Association (HVCA)
• The Association of Plumbing and Heating Contractors (APHC)
• SummitSkills (The Sector Skills Council for the Industry)
• The Worshipful Company of Plumbers
• The Scottish and Northern Ireland Plumbing Employers Federation (SNIPEF)
• The Joint Industry Board for Plumbing and Mechanical
  Engineering Services in England and Wales
• British Plumbing Employers Council Training Ltd (BPEC)
• The Institute of Domestic Heating and Environmental Engineers (IDHE)
• National Association of Plumbing Teachers (NAPT)
• The Bathroom Manufacturers Association (BMA)

You may think these people and organisations just like to shout at the moon and would like the industry to be a closed shop but that is not the case.

I think Puddle put it across excellently in his analogy

I always say to people, think about the hobby you have, look how long it took to be good at it and that is something you are probably really interesting in, remember the books you read on it in the beginning and the hours you listened to others with experience ,then think how long it took you to put it all into practice, to learn the little tricks and mistakes you still made, mistakes you have to make, to learn, you soon realise you can not learn any profession in such a short period

Slowly the puddles become smaller but until they do you need an experienced person by your side showing you the best way to mop up

£7000 is a lot of money but it can not mop up a lot

imho

Anyone thinking of doing one of these courses should think hard and realistically before spending their cash on what may turn out to be an expensive lesson in life.

 

[GQuigley67]

great post tamz, looks like you need to be a member to read the second one though ..

 

[fuzzy]

When I went to college to complete my 6129 I knew I had to complete my portfolio to get my NVQ as I'd researched it. However the college didn't mention it and no one else on the course realised until I said. They all thought that the course they were on would leave them qualified.

when i point out the facts about courses i get called negative. thats the reaction you get from many newbies as its not what they want to hear. when they get half way through and it dawns on them its all the centres fault!

 

[GQuigley67]

i discussed it at the college today, one of the ACS assessors says they get guys coming in with level 2s asking to do their ACS, not realising you need level 3 and a gas foundation course

 

[Dannypipe]

As said people want to hear what the want to hear. Who wants to hear it'll take you four years to get properly qualified. I wouldn't want anyone doing work in my house unless they has 4 years training and workplace experience. I wouldn't want someone to service my boiler unless they had a few more years than that.

Not being funny, but who likes the idea of a junior doctor checking you out, or a novice mechanic changing your brakes...same goes with most things.

You don't realise how green some of the newly qualified guys are until you employ one. I mean no offense, we all have to start somewhere.

 

[fuzzy]

i discussed it at the college today, one of the ACS assessors says they get guys coming in with level 2s asking to do their ACS, not realising you need level 3 and a gas foundation course

you dont need level 3? level 3 tech cert or nvq do you mean? nvq3 has acs in anyway. tc3 is no better than tc or nothing as your a cat3. nvq2 is cat 2

 

[tamz]

looks like you need to be a member to read the second one though ..

So you do Gerry. Never noticed as i must have been still logged in.

 

[GQuigley67]

SVQ level 3 is the minimum required in scotland thats what i mean fuzz and that requires an apprenticeship, to be able to do the ACS u need that. You get gas foundation courses for people who didnt do it at college but want to do later in life. This is what one of the lecturers told me today i was at the college for a vaillant day course

 

[fuzzy]

SVQ level 3 is the minimum required in scotland thats what i mean fuzz and that requires an apprenticeship, to be able to do the ACS u need that. You get gas foundation courses for people who didnt do it at college but want to do later in life. This is what one of the lecturers told me today i was at the college for a vaillant day course

you dont need any quals to do the ACS, where ever you are

 

[GQuigley67]

i dont know thats what he said, just told the guys they cant do it unless they have level 3 and do a gas foundation course which is right if you ask me

 

[fuzzy]

i dont know thats what he said, just told the guys they cant do it unless they have level 3 and do a gas foundation course which is right if you ask me

wasnt saying it was right or wrong. just saying that you dont need any quals to sit your acs, they are misleading you

 

[GQuigley67]

i know you werent saying if it was right or wrong, i was just saying he's quite right turning down these guys that turn up with not enough qualifications.

 

[fuzzy]

i know you werent saying if it was right or wrong, i was just saying he's quite right turning down these guys that turn up with not enough qualifications.

he has no right to refuse if they meet the criteria, you dont need any quals to do your acs

 

[Ivor Bates]

And here I am, originally it was an article done for the Guardian newspaper who asked me for an interview as they had seen some of my replies on Gumtree's forums to guy's looking to fastrackinto the plumbing industry. The main gripe I have about this fast track system is this myth on earnings but it's always displayed as potential earnings. But like most things you read what you want to read and that is is £40k+. Even in London you will struggle to earn figures like that, certain plumbing companies in London have done the industry little or no favours at all, but it is all part of their self publicity and gullible people take on board what they say. You may well earn £1200 one week, but the following you might only earn £400 and the following £700 and the following £1500 at that rate you'll be on just over £45k pa but then if you have 2,3,6, or 9 weeks of no work then your £45k has just blown away into fantasy land.... As for the amount of calls I get now from both fast track and old school plumbers anywhere between 5-10 per day with the eqivilent in emails... so go figure it out

anyone thinking of paying thousands of pounds for a fast track course should read this article first

[DLMURL="http://www.ciphe.org.uk/News/Are-fast-track-plumbing-courses-just-money-down-the-drain/"]Are fast-track plumbing courses just money down the drain? - CIPHE[/DLMURL]

short part of article:

Some companies offering fast-track courses claim there is a nationwide shortage of plumbers. "The country is in dire need of qualified plumbers," says Train4TradeSkills on its website, quoting a former trainee who "never takes home less than £1,200 per week". New Career Skills, another private training company, says in its latest brochure: "The massive plumbing shortage provides an opportunity for those who want a lucrative, secure and fulfilling career."
The reality can be very different. Ivor Bates, who runs a London plumbing firm, Bates Heating and Plumbing, says he is contacted three or four times each week by people who have completed a fast-track course and are desperate for work experience to achieve the industry-standard NVQ level 2.
"Around 10% of these guys offer to work for nothing and say they have rung endless plumbing companies and will do anything to get a foot in the door," he says. "One bloke saw my van outside Asda and ran into the supermarket after me and offered to pay me to take him on. But I would never take someone from one of these short courses because they have not got experience of working on-site and I would not be confident sending them into customers' homes."

 

[fuzzy]

5-10 people applying for non exisitant plumbing positions is an insight into how much work is out there!!

 

[electric ellie]

i am fully qualed electrician, but out of work - i am looking into these sorts of courses but only because i have work ex lined up - surely that is ok?