Info for people considering fast tracking

[Ivor Bates]

Look this courses are great if you want to plumb your own bathroom suite in, but apart from that not a lot..

 

[BikerBen]

Bit of an expensive way to learn how to plumb in a bathroom suite

I think I could do that already with my basic albeit limited practical knowledge

When I contacted one of these companies out of curiosity I found that they were like vultures and wouldnt leave me alone! They kept ringing me up to see if I was ready to sign up but gave ropey answers when I asked searching questions = a scam.

 

[curlycan]

I'd just like to say thankyou for putting this thread on. I have a person from train4tradeskills coming to give me information about their courses tomorrow as I was interested in training as a plumber to go along side my tiling work due to the fact I'm always getting asked if I do plumbing. After reading this thread I will certainly not be taking the course as I don't have 7 grand to waste. And respect for all you apprenticeship served plumbers the way to go would be a proper 4 year course if you want to do it properly.

 

[leelister6]

I'd just like to say thankyou for putting this thread on. I have a person from train4tradeskills coming to give me information about their courses tomorrow as I was interested in training as a plumber to go along side my tiling work due to the fact I'm always getting asked if I do plumbing. After reading this thread I will certainly not be taking the course as I don't have 7 grand to waste. And respect for all you apprenticeship served plumbers the way to go would be a proper 4 year course if you want to do it properly.

Your best bet is to get in touch with local plumbers and see if you can get tiling work via them and you can then pass their number on when you're asked about a plumber and vice versa. I've fitted quite a few bathrooms by doing this and got tilers a load of work too

 

[fuzzy]

I'd just like to say thankyou for putting this thread on. I have a person from train4tradeskills coming to give me information about their courses tomorrow as I was interested in training as a plumber to go along side my tiling work due to the fact I'm always getting asked if I do plumbing. After reading this thread I will certainly not be taking the course as I don't have 7 grand to waste. And respect for all you apprenticeship served plumbers the way to go would be a proper 4 year course if you want to do it properly.

try a local college, maybe ask about this course

[DLMURL="http://www.cityandguilds.com/56819.html?search_term=2000"]Certificate/Diploma in Access to Building Services Engineering | Construction and Building[/DLMURL]

 

[bikeman01]

met someone the other day who had spent 10k and had his 6129 level 2 and 3. he was doing the same, desperate for a placement to get his nvq;s. How do these people continue to fall for the rubbish they are told? they fall for the promise of money, heres to another one dropping out with 10k less than he started with

You probably started out as an apprentice and went on to self employment and are now master of your own destiny.

We followed a differemt career route, one where we worked for someone else who eventually decided they had no furter use for us.

So lets get something straight - we're not seduced by easy work for big money - we're normal guys who are being hit by redundancies and need to change careers in mid life - self empoyment may be our only option.

Yes I know the thread is a momnth or 2 old but I had a point to make.

 

[fuzzy]

You probably started out as an apprentice and went on to self employment and are now master of your own destiny.

We followed a differemt career route, one where we worked for someone else who eventually decided they had no furter use for us.

So lets get something straight - we're not seduced by easy work for big money - we're normal guys who are being hit by redundancies and need to change careers in mid life - self empoyment may be our only option.

Yes I know the thread is a momnth or 2 old but I had a point to make.

and you think paying 10k for a small chance of a career plus no nvq is a wise choice? Lets get one thing straight, being in a difficult position is one thing, paying 10k for a course with little chance of employment should only be done if you know the risks and have done the homework. Im telling you as it is, it may not be nice to hear but these are the facts.

i hope it works out for him all the same

 

[bikeman01]

Of course no one should hand over £10k without knowing what they are getting for it but not all are fools some are just desperate.

Having said that there does seem to be an underlying resentment in the trade that anyone should be able to fast track entry yet there is also a reluctance on their part to take on trainees (young and old) - bit of a catch22.

One day work will pickup, you will have retired and we'll have a skills shortage again.

 

[fuzzy]

Of course no one should hand over £10k without knowing what they are getting for it but not all are fools some are just desperate.

Having said that there does seem to be an underlying resentment in the trade that anyone should be able to fast track entry yet there is also a reluctance on their part to take on trainees (young and old) - bit of a catch22.

One day work will pickup, you will have retired and we'll have a skills shortage again.

Or desperate fools? getting a 10k debt wont help anybodies situation.

I have heard that some centres let newbies believe that the feedback from qualified tradesmen is negative because they dont want them entering the trade and becoming competition. In my experience this is not the case, they are however fiercely protective of the trade and why shouldnt they be?
All tradesmen should be training and assessed to the same standards, therefore ensuring the same quality and a level playing field. The trade qualifications are there to protect the industry, they ensure we all meet the correct standards and for good reason. Poor quals and short cuts will lead to poorly trained tradesmen, a lowering of credibility for the industry which will affect all tradesmen and clients in the future.

Companies will take on apprentices when they need to, the supply and demand system provides trainees to the industry when they are needed, so there are highs and lows but these follow the industry trends, its self regulating, so dont worry about being short of skilled trades in the future. It happened about 8 years ago and the industry trained 1,000s of people, hence now we have plenty, any shortage will quickly be remedied.

Nobody owes anyone a living

 

[Barry98]

work to live not live to work

 

[dontknowitall]

Start with a large fortune and you end up with a small fortune ...

Mind you, if it works, it's a good £10k well spent. My course cost around £5k and OFTEC another £2k but best £7k I've spent.

 

[fuzzy]

it can be a good investment, but the guy i spoke to hadnt had one days work since qualifying in tech certs. he had bought a van and tools etc, he was so proud to tell me about all these new gleaming tools, i felt sorry or him

 

[bikeman01]

It happened about 8 years ago and the industry trained 1,000s of people, hence now we have plenty...

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

 

[fuzzy]

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

the government cannot be responsible for centres promising unrealistic earnings. If i recall correctly it was mainly the press who made those claims.
I have never come across many foreign workers at all, however many people tell me they are there taking the jobs off newly qualified plumbers, i have not seen this, in fact i cannot think of one foreign plumber i have come across in merseyside
"At no time during all this did industry train up 1,000s" I'm sorry my friend but around 8,000 have completed the full NVQs during this period. Where did you base this claim from if i may ask

 

[tamz]

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

The industry has always trained up new tradesmen to suit demand and i can assure you at the start of the 000's they trained up numbers to suit the demand.

The cries of shortages of plumbers was from the press and a few government ministers who wouldn't know a plumber if he kicked him and were hyped out of all proportion.

You want a plumber in the next hour and yes you have very few to choose from and you may not get one but, if you want one for tomorrow or the next day you can choose from nearly anyone you like. We do not spend our days sitting by the phone hoping it rings to do an emergency job. Most work is planned work. Saying that there are now 1000's of plumbers doing just that, sitting waiting on the phone to ring as the trade is over subscribed and there is comparitively very little work to be done.

Yes things will turn around once more and there will be more work, but it won't be for a good few years and will never get to the crazy heights of the past decade. Rates are also being driven down to a point where jobs are being offered at not much above minimum wage and work is being done at prices less than those charged 20 years ago. It takes a very long time for rates to recover. If there is a shortage of plumbers in a few years it will be because of the numbers of tradesmen leaving the trade to make a half decent wage elsewhere.

Fuzzy

The sites (any that are still going) are full of foreign workers. Not so many around this way doing jobbing plumbing.

 

[Ivor Bates]

I think you'll find that it was certain plumbing companies in London that were advertising for labour, who stated in their adverts that you could earn up to £50k pa. This was mainly the rip off merchants that worked on a 60/40 percentage. So an average job like changeing a 15/50 pump would cost anything upto £4-£500 however the bubble soon burst because once papers like the Sun and Evening Standard started writing about what plumbers can earn, everyone wants a slice of the action. The reallity is that very few plumbers were ever earning these kind of figures unless of course they were working 16+ hours a day. Some of my mates that were doing this all ended up getting divorced and losing everything simply because they gave up their family / social lives just to earn another tenner....

 

[fuzzy]

i haven't come across many tamz but im guessing they are in the major city's more

 

[bikeman01]

"At no time during all this did industry train up 1,000s" I'm sorry my friend but around 8,000 have completed the full NVQs during this period. Where did you base this claim from if i may ask

I accept that this is just a layman's view but I base it on taking an interest in the local job market and never ever seeing any vacancies over the intervening period since a shortage was publicised. I stand corrected if I am wrong.

And yes I do blame the government. Maybe not for the unrealistic wage claims but for their misinterpretation of statistics. They did the same with HIPs and when faced with the backlash of thousands of trainees who'd forked out £7000 they decided to extend it's remit to rental properties just to give these people work.

There is a lack of joined up thinkingin uk government regardless of who is in power.

 

[fuzzy]

my local college had 60 apprentices in 2004

the gov have made mistakes, but i think its unfair to blame this one on them. They put a lot of money into education, mid 2000s all adult courses for trades were free, obviously that couldnt continue

 

[GQuigley67]

not so long ago i done my apprenticeship, probably around the time the shortage was announced, and there were alot of plumbes at my college, aswell as all the other collegs in the city. So yes there are still apprenticeships, and you can only become a recognised plumber in scotland with an SVQ3 which is a 4 year apprenticeship, lvl 2 doesnt exist up here really...

I had about 3 guys in my class who were 40+ some others were 25, 28 etc while the majority of us were teenagers.

 

[fuzzy]

the gov have done their bit, not saying they are perfect obviously not but the last labour gov were good on education

some people feel hard done too now they struggle to convert their tc 6129's, i understand that and feel sorry for them but they should have done their home work better, not do it then blame plumbers who are struggling to make a living for not letting them in, it aint like that

 

[tamz]

What i find hard to comprehend is people who claim to have done their reasearch, spent X amount of thousands and cry they have no recognised qualification with no chance of a job. If they had really done their research they would find you don't need any qualifications to trade as a plumber. They could have bought a couple of books a half decent van and a good set of tools for the same cash. They still wouldn't be employable but could go do their own thing and make just as much of a mess up of things than if they had been "trained".
Theory training is nothing without practical experience and you learn that fastest by your mistakes. Wreck the odd house now and again and you'll remember what not to do :lol:

 

[GQuigley67]

lol true, after a few expensive public liability claims and feeling like a prat when asked to fix things you dont have a clue about

 

[fuzzy]

well said tamz, they appear to have researched and listened to the bits they wanted to hear, then blame lumbers for being obstructive.

with the new quals you dont even get a tech cert, you get to know your working towards!! so you dont even get any qual without a job, give it 12 months there will be some desperate people wanting jobs to justify all that money for no qual

 

[tamz]

When signing up to these courses it is a case of it is easy to believe someone when they tell you what you want to hear.

Later, it can be hard to listen to what you don't want to hear, by which time, the reality starts to sink in, which makes it painfull listening.