Installer installed undersized radiators

[diyer]

Hi,
I had a new central heating system fitted last year and always thought it was cold but because I didn't really use it, as the property was being renovated at the time, I didn't think much of it.

I've finally got round to measuring the temps this year and it's freezing! The temps are reaching a max of 12C-13C with the heating on. I found out about undersized rads and worked out the required BTUs from online BTU calculators and found out that the rads are nearly all undersized by a fair bit.

Is there anything I can do legally being that it has been over a year since the installation?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Rickster123]

Hi diyer and welcome. Can you give us some rad sizes and room sizes as examples to go on?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Not sure about the leagal bit but you should get bigger rads fitted

 

[diyer]

Hi diyer and welcome. Can you give us some rad sizes and room sizes as examples to go on?

Yep, just measured them!

Living room: 3.4m x 3.7m x 2.7m Rad installed: 1000mm x 600mm single BTU 3238
Bedroom 1: 3.5 x 3.4 x 2.6 Rad installed: 900mm x 450mm single BTU 2262
Bedroom 2: 3.77 x 2.5 x 2.65 Rad installed: 700mm x 450mm BTU 2007

 

[diyer]

Not sure about the leagal bit but you should get bigger rads fitted

Yes, I will do, it just depends on how I go about it... depending on what my rights are...

 

[chris watkins]

What are the design perimeter that you have used ? room temp, outside temp, mean water temp. Do you know what the installer used ? if not write to them & ask also set out what you have found & ask them to comment / sort out, don't threaten anything at the moment.

P.S. What is the building construction ?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I would have go for living room K2 ( double panel double convector )
bedrooms P+ ( double panel single convector )

about ligal bit you need to speak to solicitor I think

 

[chris watkins]

I would have go for living room K2 ( double panel double convector )
bedrooms P+ ( double panel single convector )

about ligal bit you need to speak to solicitor I think

Not being funny but how the hell can you say that ??? whats the building construction, whats the design temps, here we go again guessing at rad sizes again this is not very helpful to the industry !!!!!!!!

 

[diyer]

What are the design perimeter that you have used ? room temp, outside temp, mean water temp. Do you know what the installer used ? if not write to them & ask also set out what you have found & ask them to comment / sort out, don't threaten anything at the moment.

P.S. What is the building construction ?

Not sure what you mean by design perimeter.
When I did the measurements, outside temp was 0C, inside was 10C and inside with rads on for a few hours was 12C.
The installer didn't do any calcs like that.

I've already spoken to the installer and it was only then that he came and measured the rooms and the rads. He came back and admitted that the downstairs (2 x Living room) are undersized and he'll change them for £45 each but that he reckons the upstairs (bedrooms) are fine and not willing to do anything (unless I pay full price obviously).

Construction is brick (terrace)

 

[Gray0689]

Not being funny but how the hell can you say that ??? whats the building construction, whats the design temps, here we go again guessing at rad sizes again this is not very helpful to the industry !!!!!!!!

He can say it as they are undersized by some way

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Not being funny but how the hell can you say that ??? whats the building construction, whats the design temps, here we go again guessing at rad sizes again this is not very helpful to the industry !!!!!!!!

This is referring to the bit where op is in need of more heat as he is saying that his house is not getting up to temperature !

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Not being funny but how the hell can you say that ??? whats the building construction, whats the design temps, here we go again guessing at rad sizes again this is not very helpful to the industry !!!!!!!!

If his house is cold and rads already installed will not do the job , easiest thing will be to keep them same size and just fit K2 and P+ and remove the K1 . Just giving a suggestin to op . And why is this getting your blood boiling ?????

 

[diyer]

I would have go for living room K2 ( double panel double convector )
bedrooms P+ ( double panel single convector )

about ligal bit you need to speak to solicitor I think

Is it a solicitor job or trading standards?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I am not sure tbh !! Who has design the ch system ? who has calculated/ sized boiler and rads ? Did you have a architect or builder in charge for the job or was it all left to the plumber ?

 

[Rickster123]

Is it a solicitor job or trading standards?

I doubt you will get far with it to be honest. Better just to se the cash on larger rads. And don't use the original guy again!

 

[diyer]

I am not sure tbh !! Who has design the ch system ? who has calculated/ sized boiler and rads ? Did you have a architect or builder in charge for the job or was it all left to the plumber ?

It wasn't 'designed'. Just the gas guy having a look at the rooms then coming back a few days later with the rads. He didn't even measure the rooms!

 

[aligorgon]

Yeah i admit these are undersized, it was my mistake but i want you to pay me for putting right my mistake ...yeah right ..

 

[Gray0689]

It wasn't 'designed'. Just the gas guy having a look at the rooms then coming back a few days later with the rads. He didn't even measure the rooms!

And you thought that was the correct way and didnt question it??

 

[SafeGasInstall]

It wasn't 'designed'. Just the gas guy having a look at the rooms then coming back a few days later with the rads. He didn't even measure the rooms!

Where about are you ?

 

[diyer]

I doubt you will get far with it to be honest. Better just to se the cash on larger rads. And don't use the original guy again!

What does that bit in bold mean?

Also, surely after spending a large sum of money on central heating that doesn't heat, i.e. not fit for purpose, there must be some comeback?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

How much were you charged and what boiler did he fit you ?

 

[chris watkins]

Not sure what you mean by design perimeter.
When I did the measurements, outside temp was 0C, inside was 10C and inside with rads on for a few hours was 12C.
The installer didn't do any calcs like that.

I've already spoken to the installer and it was only then that he came and measured the rooms and the rads. He came back and admitted that the downstairs (2 x Living room) are undersized and he'll change them for £45 each but that he reckons the upstairs (bedrooms) are fine and not willing to do anything (unless I pay full price obviously).

Construction is brick (terrace)

Sorry, am I missing something here, you paid to have new radiators installed to heat the rooms & now they don't he is asking you to pay for bigger ones. ??? Why would you even consider this !

To be able to select a rad to heat a space you need to set some perimeter such as out side temp normally -3, inside normally 21 or 22 & what the average water temp is going to be i.e. what water temp you are going to set the boiler to (what is yours set to ? ) old days 76.5 now 60 or lower. You also need to work out how quickly the heat will be lost from the rooms so you need the know how big there are & windows doors as well as their construction (u values).

Was this guy cheap ?? if yes you now know why. Was he recommended or long established ??? if no you now know for next time.

 

[Rickster123]

What does that bit in bold mean?

Also, surely after spending a large sum of money on central heating that doesn't heat, i.e. not fit for purpose, there must be some comeback?

Sorry my iPad had one of its helpful moments there it should read : better to just spend the cash on larger rads. What paperwork did you have? Written quote with rad sizes? Written invoice and receipt for payment made? What guarantee did you get?

 

[WHPES]

You can get an approximate idea of the output your rooms need using this application here:

Radcalcs radiator btu sizing site

You can look up the output of your existing rads from the manufacturers website.

Sometimes it's possible to upgrade from singles to doubles etc.

Always better to go for oversize than undersize radiators (says me shivering in my living room because I made do with a left over radiator cos I was too tight to part with cash for a bigger new one :tounge_smile: )

 

[mountainman]

Yeah i admit these are undersized, it was my mistake but i want you to pay me for putting right my mistake ...yeah right ..

Solicitors make similar mistakes all the time and charge their customers again to put rings right.