INTERGAS HRE 28/24 Combi

[DjClubber]

Admit, not any experience with these but am really disappointed with them.

Called out to rectify Hot Water going Hot then Cold, was thinking Plate and usual Boiler. Then get there no Plate and conversation with Intergas Tech stating only way to get working is hook up a Power Flush to the Hot out and Cold in. Really not a big selling factor for me to be fair.

Anyone here got any experience with Intergas Combi? Want to double check before I commit to the work. Heating fine, circulation on Heating fine. Hot Water Hot for seconds then cold. To top it off too, its in the Loft.

Cant see this taking off too much every 3yrs or so having to hook up me KAMCO CF90 and the Bedroom underneath has brand new carpets.

What ACID required for this procedure, Quantity? Oviously FX2 out oof the Question and its on the Pottable Water side too. ADVICE gratefully received. . .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Hard water area ?

 

[DjClubber]

Yh Dunstable.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Need ds3 then and a softener fitting as it’s just copper pipe running back and too

 

[DjClubber]

Ok, will that sort it? What Quantity through the power flush of DS3? Softener Fitting??? You mean add a Softener or Softener Fitting???

 

[DjClubber]

Think I see, w/m valve to connect Flush...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes depends how much water your pf holds there’s a ratio

Yes else they will have the same problem

 

[DjClubber]

Got Ya, will work out quantity based on my Flush. How long recommend flush for?

 

[DjClubber]

Is it till exhausted normally changes colour when I put this through Gravity ID Cyl. . .

 

[DjClubber]

Cheers. . .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Normally fill the flusher

Then pump into wait until it starts coming out give it a couple of mins then stop and turn the valves off eg leaving the stuff in there

Wait 20-30 mins then open and run flusher for 5-10 mins switching flow every so often then give it another 20 mins with the valves shut etc

Then drain all the stuff out flush it with fresh clean water for around 10 mins eg hose pipe and one to drain

Then your done

 

[DjClubber]

Cheers. . . Update when complete. . .

 

[Stan]

I'm interfering here - apologies. And I'm a know-nothing DIYer.

But am toying with options to replace my Heat Only boiler (there's another thread currently open) - and Intergas was one of the possibilities (Ideal is currently the other).

I thought I kept reading that Intergas was the saviour of mankind and you fit and forget. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

Or is it simply a case of water hardness on the hot water side that would affect any other make?

 

[DjClubber]

Hi From my experience so far, on any other make you have a secondary heat exchanger which can be cleaned or replaced at a reasonable cost. With the Intergas, only way to remedy is hook up a Power Flush Machine. No secondary Heat Exchanger. I am a Novice with Intergas and can only assist a little. But from my point of view, would prefer the secondary for an installers Maintenance of the Hot Water.

While Im here Ill update, Flushed Through and now problem resolved. Looking to put in a Water Softener as it currently has a Scale Reducer Inline. So dare say Ill be meeting the owner again in the very near future.

Don't know if there are any more experienced Intergas Engineers that can contribute. . .

 

[Stan]

Hi From my experience so far, on any other make you have a secondary heat exchanger which can be cleaned or replaced at a reasonable cost. With the Intergas, only way to remedy is hook up a Power Flush Machine. No secondary Heat Exchanger. I am a Novice with Intergas and can only assist a little. But from my point of view, would prefer the secondary for an installers Maintenance of the Hot Water.

While Im here Ill update, Flushed Through and now problem resolved. Looking to put in a Water Softener as it currently has a Scale Reducer Inline. So dare say Ill be meeting the owner again in the very near future.

Don't know if there are any more experienced Intergas Engineers that can contribute. . .

With further apologies for butting in - as per my other thread, I'm torn between installing an Intergas HRE OV Heat Only boiler and an Ideal Heat Only Logic MAX boiler to replace an old cast iron Ideal Classic. The Ideal option is the easy one insofar it's well known and has an attractive 10 yr warranty and my mate (a local Gase Safe installer) is familiar with them.

But, regrettably, locally, Intergas is a bit of an unknown quantity. I love the idea that the Intergas HEX is less prone to blockage as I have a 23 yr old open vent 10mm microbore system which would tend to lend itself to the Intergas HEX more than the Ideal one (which is seemingly experiencing issues with the sump cracking and may well be more likely to fail/block up than the Intergas one. For information, the water here is very soft - no limescale at all, ever.

Further apologies for taking time on this topic.

 

[DjClubber]

Ok the Heat only is completely different to the COMBI. There was nothing wrong with the MAIN HEAT EXCHANGER on the Intergas. A Combi has the 2nd ary Circulation. Heat Only only has a MAIN HEAT EXCHANGE.

 

[Stan]

Much appreciate the extra, reassuring, advice there.

And just finally - I keep thinking back on the question of "Fitting Kit A" (the jig) on the HRE OV.

I realise I shouldn't concern myself with it - but I have an inquisitive nature - and saw (with some interest) that an offset bend (I think it was 50 degree) is needed to centralise the flue - that is to say to avoid clashing with the flow and return.

The Intergas advisor said he thought the jig is advisable but not essential (without the jig he said you'd need to chisel [chamfer] the hole in the wall out a bit to accommodate the flue).

Is there a definitive answer on that or is it just personal choice? As we know the jig comes with expansion vessel and pipework that would get thrown away .. is it really advisable or necessary?

Ta.

 

[DjClubber]

If you are fitting a heat only boiler and don't have a separate sealed Expansion Kit then this is choice, if you have already got the sealed system in place, you wouldn't need it. A Heat Only Boiler generally doesn't come with an Expansion Vessel built in. Only System & Combi are more or less compulsory. Heat Only not required as probably are going to install a separate EXP VES and PRV Kit. I wouldn't of thought the Flue would interfere with the Flow & Return Connections. Heat Only are Generally at the Top of the Boiler and only 2 Pipes. Looking at the KIT 'A' is more suited to a COMBI as all piped below. Heat Only, only GAS at the Bottom.

 

[Stan]

If you are fitting a heat only boiler and don't have a separate sealed Expansion Kit then this is choice, if you have already got the sealed system in place, you wouldn't need it. A Heat Only Boiler generally doesn't come with an Expansion Vessel built in. Only System & Combi are more or less compulsory. Heat Only not required as probably are going to install a separate EXP VES and PRV Kit. I wouldn't of thought the Flue would interfere with the Flow & Return Connections. Heat Only are Generally at the Top of the Boiler and only 2 Pipes. Looking at the KIT 'A' is more suited to a COMBI as all piped below. Heat Only, only GAS at the Bottom.

All received, ta.

Just to clarify.

I don't have a sealed system - open vent with a clean and accessible F & E in the loft.

I won't be installing an expansion vessel nor a PRV ... it's an open vented heat only system with a Grundfos pump in the airing cupboard.

Intergas have told me the flue DOES interfere with the flow and return UNLESS I fit the offset flue which kicks the flue outlet over to the centre. Indeed, if I look at an illustration of the top of the HRE OV boiler it looks obvious that the standard flue kit would point the flue directly at the flow and return - which are sited immediately behind the flue outlet.

I agree the Kit A looks entire appropriate for a System Boiler or a Combi system - BUT the bloke at Intergas said you buy the jig and just discard the EV and the copper pipes. He said the reason you fit the jig is just to stand the boiler off the wall which in turn brings the offset elboww off the wall (obviously enough). By standing the boiler and the flue off the wall it saves you having to chisel (chamfer) a bit of brickwork away from the perimeter of the flue hole.

Further thanks.

 

[Riley]

Might be your

Open forum ron

 

[Old Account]

Open forum ron

Sorry riley, can’t remember what I actually wrote. Did I write something which I shouldn’t? I’m sorry if i did

 

[Riley]

No worries

 

[Arthur]

Just on the Intergas front, if you do not have a Combimate fitted it is more than likely that in a hard water area the hot water side will give you grief. It can be cleaned in situ with a hand pressurisation pump - Rothenberger type- with Kamco descaler in warm/hot water probably take 20 mins.
A check with the local water authority will give you the Clark scale for the area & if over 200 a Combimate is required. If below an in line Adey scale reducer is approved.
I speak from recent experience & although they suggest the in line unit - which was fitted to the boiler in question- there is no mention about the over 200 on the Clark Scale requirement.
We have now fitted 20-30 of the Intergas units & have only come across this scale issue on a couple. It is very easy & quick to descale & will take less time than most secondary plate heat exchangers plus no seals to be replaced either.

Arthur.

 

[Stan]

Interesting Arthur.

I was prompted to check my own Clark figure in the South West - but it bore no relationship to the figure 200. It's between 3.6 - 7. The figure that did seem to fit in was the Calcium Carbonate figure - mine's 51 - 100 and other regions did go over 200.

Additionally, may I get you to settle an uncertainty in my mind as I contemplate a replacement Intergas Heat Only boiler. I asked the question above but it's still not been explained to me. When fitting, say, a HRE OV 18 I can't find a definitive answer to whether you need the Fitting Kit (the jig) or not. I gather the offset flue kit is obligatory in order to avoid the flow and return (although even that point seemed uncertain in earlier replies) - but do you "have" to fit the jig (i.e to stand the boiler off the wall an inch or so) or will the additional offset flue elbow allow the regular elbow to sit flush with the back of the boiler (i.e. facing the back wall but without overhanging it). But if it does overhang the rear of the boiler then presumably you have to chamfer the hole in the wall to accommodate it?

 

[Riley]

I’d really forget the Intergas if you're not getting the answers you want Stan