is an ECV actually mainly used as a Service Valve ???

[Last Plumber]

where the meter has not been re-installed or replaced by another meter before the expiry of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of removal of the meter and there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) above, ensure that the service pipe or service pipework for those premises is disconnected as near as is reasonably practicable to the main or storage vessel and that any part of the pipe or pipework which is not removed is sealed at both ends with the appropriate fitting.

 

[Dean Williams]

i have only owned the property since Dec 2016 but yes the meter was removed in 2013 as he did not want to pay a standing charge when the property was unoccupied

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i have only owned the property since Dec 2016 but yes the meter was removed in 2013 as he did not want to pay a standing charge when the property was unoccupied

Yes and do you want gas back / reconnecting ?

 

[Dean Williams]

yes .....i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol ...... insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

 

[Chalked]

Not sure about the length of time. But the gas supplier can cut off the gas outside the house boundary, if no meter has been present for a given time.
If you have evidence that a supply was in your property at any time in the past. They will for free install a new main.

I have to ask why, if you don't use gas. Are you bothered, that they have cut off supply!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yes ...i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol .. insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

Yes that's common, also might need to up grade your supply to the property

 

[Chalked]

yes ...i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol .. insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

Ask them to reinstate the existing supply. But you WILL need to pay for the second one.

 

[Last Plumber]

If you want my opinion, you're on a hiding to nothing.

That service belongs to them. If it hasn't been used in years, they won't go to any trouble to find out what you might be planning in the future.

All they have is a record of it having been capped years ago and no information since.

I know it is not what you want to hear but I'm trying to save you a lot of stress and hard work.

 

[snowhead]

i am taking National Grid or Cadent as they are now known to task "also known as the "ombudsman" for digging the road up outside my property and disconnecting my gas supply...

At the time they dug up and disconnected it was NOT your supply.
It was a deadleg of gas pipe entering a property.

they carnt do what they want with it , they also have to comply with the law

They have complied with the law.

The Gas Regs are not a code of practice they are Legislation set in Law.

Has the supply been dug up since you have owned the property?

P.S Nat Grid /Cadent are not obliged in law to establish whether the property is occupied or not or has changed ownership since removal of the meter.
They also would not have removed the meter, that would have been done by the Gas supplier.

They do have to be notified when the meter has been removed.
Maybe in this case if the supply has only just been disconnected in the street they hadn't been notified of the removal until that time.

 

[Dean Williams]

this is not a straightforward not used gas for years so its fine to cut it off
1.I have recently purchased the property Dec 2016
2. sometime in April/May 2016 i got a post card through the door from a inspector saying he had called and if i did not contact them they were going to cut off the supply "it had a mobile number on the card so i rang him and explained the situation, he said he had noticed building work had started on the property and he would register it on the system
3 some time later got another letter saying they were going to disconnect if i don't ring them or have a meter installed within 28 days (i thought this was sorted and it was just a computer generated letter) obviously not !!!
3. 29th July 2016 vans and men turned up to dig the road up to disconnect supply , i told them i had already explained to the inspector who came a month ago that i was new owner and when ready i would be wanting a meter installed and another new gas supply
4. 4th Aug Rang National Grid on the number they provided to explain that i could not get a meter installed as there was no current MPAN number for this supply as it was registered as disconnected and i needed a live check done ......was left 25mins 18seconds on hold and was just left with all of our agents are busy we will be with you shortly .......after 25mins 18 seconds i put the phone down......... "this call cost me £18 for nothing ,,,this is disgusting ,,,,, i have just sent for and received my phone bill as evidence for my appeal to the ombudsman
5. 5th Aug Rang National Grid Connections Ordinary connections line and asked for a dead live check as i needed it to enable me to get a MPAN number and a meter fitted as they were requesting, Made appointment for engineer to visit 14th Aug 2017
6 Engineer arrived to carry out live check confirmed everything was live ans safe to have an MPAN number issued
7. two weeks later they excavated my front path and disconnected my supply.....i rang to complain they said the information had not been passed to them that i had only just had it checked by one of their own engineers ........corporate incompetence is my name for this .....what do you think ?

 

[Dean Williams]

At the time they dug up and disconnected it was NOT your supply.
It was a deadleg of gas pipe entering a property.



They have complied with the law.

The Gas Regs are not a code of practice they are Legislation set in Law.

what you don't seem to realize is that the problem is that they dont even understand the regulation let alone knoe anything about law lol

 

[snowhead]

It would have been more helpfull of you'd have posted the full story at the begining of this thread instead of going the long way round.

There's obviously been a cock up internally and as you appear to have some evidence they should be able to sort it out, without the Ombudsman.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i would say your fault as you havent let them know direct and you ignored there letter of disconnection thinking it was a computer gen random

always with these sort of company's phone them direct and get a emailed receipt

 

[Dean Williams]

It would have been more helpfull of you'd have posted the full story at the begining of this thread instead of going the long way round.

There's obviously been a cock up internally and as you appear to have some evidence they should be able to sort it out, without the Ombudsman.

I did not tell the full story as i was also wanting to point out my "main point" ....irrespective of the things i was doing to get a meter connected which they say they were unaware of ......they still had no legal right under the section of the legislation they refer to as the reason why they are entitled to cut off my supply ,,,,there is a clear caveat in that legislation that states that only if there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) should disconnection take place ..... and in my case all 3 items mentioned in this section were in place

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I did not tell the full story as i was also wanting to point out my "main point" ..irrespective of the things i was doing to get a meter connected which they say they were unaware of ....they still had no legal right under the section of the legislation they refer to as the reason why they are entitled to cut off my supply ,,,,there is a clear caveat in that legislation that states that only if there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) should disconnection take place ... and in my case all 3 items mentioned in this section were in place

but this is not law to them they have a different set of rules under the transport

 

[Dean Williams]

i would say your fault as you havent let them know direct and you ignored there letter of disconnection thinking it was a computer gen random

always with these sort of company's phone them direct and get a emailed receipt

you must not have read my last message , i did ring them direct but got no human just music playing for 25 mins saying they will answer me shortly ....this phone call copst me £18 and i have proof on my phone bill to show them

 

[ShaunCorbs]

you must not have read my last message , i did ring them direct but got no human just music playing for 25 mins saying they will answer me shortly ..this phone call copst me £18 and i have proof on my phone bill to show them

doesnt matter still didnt speak to someone you try being this end of the line and trying to price for stuff like this its ridiculous

 

[snowhead]

there is a clear caveat in that legislation that states that only if there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) should disconnection take place ... and in my case all 3 items mentioned in this section were in place

If this is what your arguement is based on it is seriously flawed.
You've misunderstood what's meant by the statement in 3 (a) (i).

What it's saying is if a replacement meter is not to be installed and the Service valve, or ECV which we've agreed acts as a service valve, does NOT control the supply to ANOTHER PRIMARY METER ( eg a single supply to a property with multiple Primary meters like a block of flats) then the ECV / Service valve can be capped and the supply can later be disconnected in the street.

If it does supply multiple Primary meters, which would mean multiple bill payers, then it cannot be capped and cannot later be disconnected in the street.

You're reading it as where there is an ECV in place, which is what you had, it cannot be capped and later disconnected.
That's not what it says.

 

[Dean Williams]

If this is what your arguement is based on it is seriously flawed.
You've misunderstood what's meant by the statement in 3 (a) (i).

What it's saying is if a replacement meter is not to be installed and the Service valve, or ECV which we've agreed acts as a service valve, does NOT control the supply to ANOTHER PRIMARY METER ( eg a single supply to a property with multiple Primary meters like a block of flats) then the ECV / Service valve can be capped and the supply can later be disconnected in the street.

If it does supply multiple Primary meters, which would mean multiple bill payers, then it cannot be capped and cannot later be disconnected in the street.

You're reading it as where there is an ECV in place, which is what you had, it cannot be capped and later disconnected.
That's not what it says.

ok ok ok ...lets get back to basics ...... why under health and safety regulations would anyone want or need to dig up the road and remove someones gas service if :-
1. The primary meter is removed
2 Any service valve which controlled the supply of gas to that meter is turned off ........e.g ECV turned off
3. The outlet of the emergency control has been sealed with an appropriate fitting
4.The required label is in place that clearly mark any live gas pipe in the premises in which the meter was installed to the effect that the pipe contains gas.

All as shown in attached pic in the cellar of my property

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Because it's not deemed a permanent cap end, you could undo the cap with your hands and open the gas supply

 

[Dean Williams]

Because it's not deemed a permanent cap end, you could undo the cap with your hands and open the gas supply

If that is the case why does the regulation say that the service only has to be removed after 12 months of there not being a meter in place ......are you saying it is safe for a FULL year and then it suddenly becomes unsafe !!!!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If that is the case why does the regulation say that the service only has to be removed after 12 months of there not being a meter in place ....are you saying it is safe for a FULL year and then it suddenly becomes unsafe !!!!!

Because your reading our regs and not the transportation regs and rules

 

[Dean Williams]

If that is the case why does the regulation say that the service only has to be removed after 12 months of there not being a meter in place ....are you saying it is safe for a FULL year and then it suddenly becomes unsafe !!!!!

and surely you have to be gas safe registered to remove such a cap

 

[ShaunCorbs]

and surely you have to be gas safe registered to remove such a cap

You can do what you want nothing to stop you other than the law

 

[Dean Williams]

And its the statutory instrument which is "the law" that i am quoting