is this quote fair? central heating upgrade

[Millsy 82]

I always find that they are combi obsessed. Any other option isn’t what they want even if it’s wrong. I’ve told many people that I won’t fit a combi as they won’t be happy with the results.

Yes a lot of people are that's why I try and explain the pros and cons then it is up to them to decide.

I've told people who live in a 3 bed 1 bathroom house to keep the unvented that was installed when the house was build 15 years earlier because of the hot water as they were adamant they wanted a combi but after a quick chat and showing what flow rate they would get from a combi they changed their mind.

 

[mark456]

i see your point but we are in our 40s
and this is the forever home so not too fussed about future sale value.

 

[Brambles]

Mark,

For two people a properly installed large combination boiler would work fine - on a personal basis for a large house I would still go the system / unvented route.

To compare quotes, be sure you know exactly what is being installed. Where it is going to go. What pipework is going to be different from the current installation and is it going to be visible. Where is the flu going and again how much is going to be visible. If the boiler / flue is being relocated is the brick / stonework to the exterior wall going to be properly matched? Is the inside wall going to be properly replastered if left visible.

A walk through the house with the person who is physically going to undertake the installation is often very productive (on both sides) - the key for getting a good neat installation is combing through the detail. Particularly, if the boiler is going into an existing fitted kitchen. A large combi is a bulky item and has a lot of pipe work feeding in and out ( and sometimes exposed external filters ) - once installed they don’t quite look the same as the hidden pipework versions shown in the brochures!

Talk through the new control system, where is it going to be placed, is it wireless, is it easy to operate. For a large house with only two occupants, zoning is important - to optimise energy useage. An Evohome type system may be appropriate where each room can be individually zoned.

Talk through your existing heating and hot water system, are you happy with it, any problems you experience, noise, any cool spots, radiators that never seem to do the job properly etc. Now is the time to rectify any issues.

Are you happy with your current cold water pressure and flow? Is it adequate for the proposed large combi? - I do a lot of work in Knutsford, the incoming water pressure there is dreadful!

Ask him / her how long is the installation going to take (how many people).

Most good plumbers want to deliver a quality job that you will be pleased with, to do that they need to know what is important to you. I have a few customers who do not want to see any exposed pipe runs - so for them I always quote with the option for fully concealed pipework, I generally get the work.

Thereafter, you will start to get a better feel on the value of the offers you have received and exactly what you can expect both visually and performance wise from the new system.

Hope this helps

 

[mark456]

i was disappointed with the more expensive quote as the project manager spent two hours measuring up and taking pics but the document i got was thin and very generic.
the property is empty btw if that majes a difference it is being refurbished.

 

[Brambles]

Mark

You have an ideal opportunity to get a system installed that suits you and your lifestyle. From your notes, I think that you would benefit from a couple more quotes

 

[mark456]

yes i have just posted the job on the other forum if anyone interested. based in north manchester.

 

[Millsy 82]

i was disappointed with the more expensive quote as the project manager spent two hours measuring up and taking pics but the document i got was thin and very generic.
the property is empty btw if that majes a difference it is being refurbished.

A lot of my quotes are very generic as I dobt write everything from scratch every time. If you do quite a few quotes you can soon lose a lot of time writing up everything personally for that customer.

So a lot of mine is supply and fit x boiler and flue
Supply and fit new programmable room thermostat
Supply and fit magnetic filter

And so on.

If they are doing 3/4 quotes a day you have to keep them generic

 

[Riley]

i see your point but we are in our 40s
and this is the forever home so not too fussed about future sale value.

But you will likely be hacked off and embarrassed if you have visitors and you have to say one at a time for the shower even though you have two. That’s what’s daft to me having two showers that you can’t use together. You might as well turn one bathroom into a walk in cupboard or something

 

[mark456]

all three installers said 10mm microbore can stay. do you agree?

 

[Riley]

Nowt wrong with it if it’s properly installed and clean and you’re not putting huge rads on

 

[mark456]

A lot of my quotes are very generic as I dobt write everything from scratch every time. If you do quite a few quotes you can soon lose a lot of time writing up everything personally for that customer.

So a lot of mine is supply and fit x boiler and flue
Supply and fit new programmable room thermostat
Supply and fit magnetic filter

And so on.

If they are doing 3/4 quotes a day you have to keep them generic

thats fair enough.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

My opinion if it’s empty get rid of the 10mm hate the stuff

 

[Riley]

My opinion if it’s empty get rid of the 10mm hate the stuff

Completely agree. If budget allows then re pipe

 

[firemant]

I agree with the future proofing and if you say had a young couple looking to have a family then yes stored water all the way.
I cant see that the wasted energy to heat and keep heated a cylinder just so if one day they are rushed for time they could have 2 showers at the same time is worth it.
So I'm a big believer in chatting to the customer explaining the pros and cons of both systems and let them choose what they would prefer or would suit there needs better.

Serious question: On a modern UV cylinder, how long does the water keep hot?

We are 2 adult home ( +1 when son visits for weekend every month or so), 2 bathrooms/3 showers. I shower, she bathes. The water is on for about an hour, ending before we get up and again in the PM ending before we get home. That way, the HW doesn't cycle every time water is drawn. We never run out of HW. If I was bothered, I would try to run it just in the morning OR, more logically, the PM. Personally, changing from a combi to UV was a good move - simply on the basis of faster flow rates to bath.

I would NEVER recommend fitting the wrong boiler to the house. The OP says they are stopping there for ever. Life is rarely that simple.

 

[mark456]

also one of the installers said they do not unstall wickes or n
b and q bathrooms as they always fail. is it a fair point in your opinion?

 

[firemant]

I see your point but we are in our 40s
and this is the forever home so not too fussed about future sale value.

Sorry, Mark, but someone in their 40's has a long way to go (hopefully). There is a lot of water to go under the bridge, and life rarely pans out as you expect (that is from personal experience).

The heating is part of the house, and should be designed as such.

I did not see where you said the heating circuit is 10mm, but if it is, and you are totally refurbing, then definitely repipe.

 

[firemant]

also one of the installers said they do not unstall wickes or n
b and q bathrooms as they always fail. is it a fair point in your opinion?

Yes, they have. But, personally, if I did bathrooms, I would fit anything you wanted. But you would be aware that YOU are buying/supplying the gear, any time spent chasing missing/extra bits would be chargeable at my standard rates, and ANY call backs would be fully charged as normal, unless it was a leak on my soldered joint. I also would not be booking a firm date until the gear has arrived, and YOU have checked it over and confirmed satisfactory condition.

Ultimately, all the above means you would probably decline my quote and T&C's, so, perhaps, after a while and many declined quotes, I would refuse to waste my time and take a similar stance?

 

[Riley]

Get your fitter to supply from a proper merchant not from a shed

 

[Ben-gee]

You say you're gonna live there forever, don't put a cheap sh!te bathroom in then!

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Serious question: On a modern UV cylinder, how long does the water keep hot?

Our 17 year old 170l Megaflo loses 8/9oc of heat over night, measured at 1/3 up from the bottom of the cylinder. That's with introduction of a bit of cold before we go to bed, and in the morning when we get up.

We only heat during periods 4pm > 10pm. None in the morning. Hope that gives you an idea.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

We'll fit anything but I always advise customers that the fitting costs/labour costs are the same as fitting expensive/upmarket gear unless it involves more work (Such as concealed cisterns, shower valves etc). So it seems daft to me to skimp on the materials if it'll have to be replaced sooner, as you'll only have to incur another fitment cost sooner.

 

[firemant]

Our 17 year old 170l Megaflo loses 8/9oc of heat over night, measured at 1/3 up from the bottom of the cylinder. That's with introduction of a bit of cold before we go to bed, and in the morning when we get up.

We only heat during periods 4pm > 10pm. None in the morning. Hope that gives you an idea.

Thanks. But I did say modern.

seriously though - are very new ones any different?

Do you find the 4 hours serves you with HW all day? Is the main usage post 4pm?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Thanks. But I did say modern.

seriously though - are very new ones any different?

No, I think a Tempest 200l looses roughly the same amount. A newer Megaflo is no doubly probably slightly better than this but I doubt much more.

 

[Tlee05]

Install a viessmann vitodens 111-w Its a Combi boiler with a hot water storage unit it’s a bit of beast but would easily work for your needs

 

[mark456]

any thoughts on an alpha flowmaster boiler?