Is this work acceptable (pics)? Central heating system

[hammers4spanner]

I generally ask the customer (or the builder who is paying me) if they want copper or plastic and explain the upsides and downsides of both (copper is more expensive and more labour intensive but will last for decades if installed correctly, plastic is quicker so even though very similar in price to copper (including the fittings) will work out cheaper, but the rodents love to eat it, the fittings can blow off and generally looks a dogs bollx. Copper everytime for me unless, told different

Do rodents really chew plastic???

 

[mountainman]

They sure do!

 

[hammers4spanner]

I had a squirrel nesting in my loft once and it totally stripped the insulation off all the electric cables god knows how it never electrocuted itself or started a fire , never touched the pipes tho .

 

[tamz]

Looks no different to me than most of the plastic plumbing I see done.

You beat me to that one Best. Pretty par for the course where plastics are concerned, left like a dogs breakfast.

To the OP.
You are the one paying for it so regardless of what anyone else thinks, if you don't think it is acceptable get it sorted.

 

[ADM360]

I was just looking ove 3 & 4 again and it does look suspicously like a 1pipe!!! but who put new 1pipe systems in these days???

need to have a proper look at thet if I were you!!

 

[Hobo128]

Got to say somthing here matey ,first thing is that speed fit used on combi boilers is a no no because the fitting draw air in which in turn reduces the pressure in the system. Really you should have used HEP or polly plumb(the cheaper HEP).
Secondly someone once told me that if you connect copper into a plastic fitting (HEP,Speedfit,polly plumb) the copper over time corrodes the rubber washer inside the fitting causing it to leak.
For me it copper everytime. Copper look class when you have finished if you know how to use it.
Then again time is money!

 

[alunmorris]

I was just looking ove 3 & 4 again and it does look suspiciously like a 1pipe!!! but who put new 1pipe systems in these days???

need to have a proper look at thet if I were you!!

It was and still is a one pipe system. I was advised to replace all the old rads. Most of the ground floor pipes have now been renewed. When I saw the corroded old copper pipes I asked for plastic where set in concrete, which the plumber misunderstood as pipes everywhere to be plastic. I did not know that you are to keep plastic fittings accessible. In fact I later asked for the downstairs pipes to be re-located to be behind the skirting since we had to dry line the lounge walls. The builder agreed but today concreted them in. I was, er, surprised to see how this looked:
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...I3dQDbn3mAFuP7a4umFZ8_9s/plumbing5.jpg?psid=1

There is no insulation on the pipes under floorboards Surely this wastes heat? I have tired of challenging the builder - he now just replies "it's fine", or "you never clip pipes under floorboards" and "plastic pipes never go wrong".

 

[JCplumb]

Oh dear

 

[ADM360]

Sorry but if you have gone to all the trouble of replacing most of the pipe work and rads in the property, why would the plumber on site not suggest / recomend upgrading to two pipe system?

 

[gasmanrob]

agree with above

 

[tamz]

Sorry but if you have gone to all the trouble of replacing most of the pipe work and rads in the property, why would the plumber on site not suggest / recomend upgrading to two pipe system?

That one would have been a no brainer.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I wouldn't just query the plumbing here i would query the quality of the build that is going on as well

 

[kay-jay]

A one pipe system is completely unacceptable imo :thumbdown:

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ADM360]

Would a 1 pipe system work?? I don't recall speedfit having a swept Tee in there range, also the restrictions in new TRV's would slow the flow to the rads as well as the small bore of the Lockshield! Also it down't look much like there is a gradual rise or fall on any of the pipe to assist in circulation, (I realise with a pump this is negated to a certain extent!!)
As for bury fittings in screed!! Ask the plumber which build reg allows that!!

 

[alunmorris]

Would a 1 pipe system work?? I don't recall speedfit having a swept Tee in there range, also the restrictions in new TRV's would slow the flow to the rads as well as the small bore of the Lockshield! Also it down't look much like there is a gradual rise or fall on any of the pipe to assist in circulation, (I realise with a pump this is negated to a certain extent!!)
As for bury fittings in screed!! Ask the plumber which build reg allows that!!

I feel ill. I asked if the TRVs were designed for 1 pipe. He said yes, they were 'universal'. He has made all the rads either bigger or two panel, but this sounds a waste if we then have to restrict the flow in some of them to balance the system. Even the rad in the hall, where the system thermostat is, has a TRV. What's the point of that?
Why didn't the plumber suggest a two pipe system seeing as most of the plumbing was replaced? We could have had smaller rads or kept some of the originals to offset the extra labour/pipes.
I am getting a trusted plumber to look at the system. We didn't use him for the job since the builder wanted to use his regular guys.

 

[ADM360]

Sorry didn't mean to ruin your day!! But I think these issues need to be sorted now before to much more work is done!!
If the TRV's are suitable for a 1 pipe, then they would work on any system!! But the ones in the photo look like standard merchant style TRV's, so when he say's that they are universal he probably means bi-directional as nearly all TRV's are theses days means they can be retro fitted to either end of the rad!

This is all supposition as without seeing the install I couldn't give a proper opinion!!
But looking at the way the install has been put in I can't think the builder went all out on the trouble and expense of full bore TRV's for one pipe system!

Maybe if you ask on here there might be someone near by who could/would pop round and give you a on site appraisal /professional opinion.
I'd be happy to if your near by, South Somerset!!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Are you sure a Plumber did this ?? if this is his regular Plumber he needs to think about replaceing him ! you need to get someone in to have a look at this system, is it all 15mm pipe ? and are you replaceing boiler ? think I would be holding back payment untill this gets sorted.

 

[fuzzy]

It was and still is a one pipe system. I was advised to replace all the old rads. Most of the ground floor pipes have now been renewed. When I saw the corroded old copper pipes I asked for plastic where set in concrete, which the plumber misunderstood as pipes everywhere to be plastic. I did not know that you are to keep plastic fittings accessible. In fact I later asked for the downstairs pipes to be re-located to be behind the skirting since we had to dry line the lounge walls. The builder agreed but today concreted them in. I was, er, surprised to see how this looked:
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...I3dQDbn3mAFuP7a4umFZ8_9s/plumbing5.jpg?psid=1

There is no insulation on the pipes under floorboards Surely this wastes heat? I have tired of challenging the builder - he now just replies "it's fine", or "you never clip pipes under floorboards" and "plastic pipes never go wrong".

thats soooo poor mate, sorry to tell you this. plastic expands at an alarming rate, imagine what will happen if restricted under the concrete, id say it needs to come up and be done properly. pipes should be in a purpose made duct

 

[fuzzy]

Got to say somthing here matey ,first thing is that speed fit used on combi boilers is a no no because the fitting draw air in which in turn reduces the pressure in the system. Really you should have used HEP or polly plumb(the cheaper HEP).
Secondly someone once told me that if you connect copper into a plastic fitting (HEP,Speedfit,polly plumb) the copper over time corrodes the rubber washer inside the fitting causing it to leak.
For me it copper everytime. Copper look class when you have finished if you know how to use it.
Then again time is money!

not sure i follow, a combi boiler draws in air through speedfit fittings? whats the connection here?

 

[alunmorris]

Are you sure a Plumber did this ?? if this is his regular Plumber he needs to think about replaceing him ! you need to get someone in to have a look at this system, is it all 15mm pipe ? and are you replaceing boiler ? think I would be holding back payment untill this gets sorted.

The plumber has a van with his business name on it but I've just searched yell.com and no sign of him. Bugger. I wondered how someone so poor would get work except via his builder mate.
There is about 5m of 22mm pipe from the boiler then 15mm.
The latest FUBAR is in the new en suite. The plasterboard is up but the shower mixer we bought a week ago is still in the box. We have discussed the mixer about 3 times with the builder.

 

[SimonG]

Oh dear. I take it that this builder was the cheapest estimate for the works? Them TRV's are not for one pipe systems, I just hope for your sake this 'plumber' hasn't touched any of the gas work!!!!!

 

[alunmorris]

Oh dear. I take it that this builder was the cheapest estimate for the works? Them TRV's are not for one pipe systems, I just hope for your sake this 'plumber' hasn't touched any of the gas work!!!!!

No, he was recommended by my partner's son, who does tiling for him. He said "He's good, he'll look after you."

Off topic but I have just found that that dry lining he has done in the large lounge (£2k + VAT + plumber + electrician + painter) is done without regard to insulation despite the Victorian house having no cavity wall. He used dot & dab and 12.5mm plasterboard straight onto the brick. I asked why not use battens to get a bigger air gap at least - "air gap will be OK". I have just found you can buy insulated plasterboard. Why did he not even ask us if we wanted to pay extra for good insulation? I am furious. It does not even seem to comply with regulation L1B. Why the hell am I having to read building regs?

 

[fuzzy]

No, he was recommended by my partner's son, who does tiling for him. He said "He's good, he'll look after you."

Off topic but I have just found that that dry lining he has done in the large lounge (£2k + VAT + plumber + electrician + painter) is done without regard to insulation despite the Victorian house having no cavity wall. He used dot & dab and 12.5mm plasterboard straight onto the brick. I asked why not use battens to get a bigger air gap at least - "air gap will be OK". I have just found you can buy insulated plasterboard. Why did he not even ask us if we wanted to pay extra for good insulation? I am furious. It does not even seem to comply with regulation L1B. Why the hell am I having to read building regs?

your right, you shouldnt have to, thats his job

 

[alunmorris]

The plumber we've know for years played the devil's advocate when I spoke to him - no clips is fine, no insulation is fine, speedfit in concrete is fine, no ducting over the plastic in concrete is fine, not recommending a two pipe system - well he'd look like he was trying to get extra work. One pipes can work fine.
I guess he does not want to get involved in this.

 

[mountainman]

This sounds like a job Dom and Mel might be interested in televising.
I feel sorry for you in your predicament Alun.
There are so many great tradesmen out there, it's a shame one of them didn't get to do your job.