Just had an argument about tightness testing

[AWheating]

i have also worked for landlords that require the recording of the results of your initial and final tightness tests on your landlord cert, something they insisted on.

 

[mfgs]

i have this discussion almost weekly in the training centre, some disagree when i say you dont need to do one for every task, they say yes you should and they do as they like to sleep at night, my answer to that is "so you do a TT when not mandatory and find a 2mb leak, do you then isolate appliances and test carcass only or are you happy to leave 2mb" some say they leave it but if they want to sleep well at night how can they leave a 2mb drop which might be on a pipe, which we all know cant be left, they are doing half a task rather than completing the whole thing, so either comply with the reg or go the whole hog and if you overstep the reg then do everything that you can to determine where the 2mb drop is, or do what i do any fully comply with the reg and test when mandatory (as long as you know when it is mandatory, and i do)

I was waiting for you to come along and answer on this lol. My exact feelings on it. You are opening a can of worms and will end up with an unhappy customer.

 

[GrahamM]

It is good practice to carry out a tightness test during a routine service, although not mandatory.
A tightness test is only required during a routine service if you have to interrupt the gas supply to an installation. ie. removing an appliance etc. or if you suspect a gas leak.

As most of us know, BG do not want the headache of investigating permissible drops in install after install so they do not carry out a tightness test as a mater of course.

 

[mickie]

its not mandatory, so to hell with it.. if their is a massive leak under the floor, just leave it till something goes bang?...

if you find a leak doing a TT even though you didnt really have to, i'd have thought most people would be happy, most normal people wouldnt want a gas leak.. if people are testing but then leaving the problem, thats their problem, if they're happy to assume its not a danger to life

 

[aggis]

You only need to do it after but common sense suggests doing it before can be a good idea to protect yourself against being blamed for problems already there. Question is in you long years of experence how useful has it to you to do a TT before?
You can find the requirements under technical guidence when you log into GSR - search tightness.

I am not sure Kirkgas is right or wrong about servicing and repairing. I think you DO need to do a TT. You guys check the technical guidence.

Kirkgas is spot on.

Doing a TT before a job is a requirement not just common sense before carrying out installation/alteration to pipework.
Servicing, only broken joints need checking if issolated at appliance.
If no issolation at appliance you must do the TT's when you turn off at meter.

If you do, do TT's on every job for peace of mind the full criteria must be carried out.

 

[mickeyuk]

Spot on ! Kirkgas

 

[GQuigley67]

if you had to do a tightness test on each appliance you work on, then why the need for service/isolation valves? Test for tightness at P1 and spray with LDF no need to do full carcass unless alteration to pipework, write what you done on paperwork

 

[kirkgas]

You only need to do it after but common sense suggests doing it before can be a good idea to protect yourself against being blamed for problems already there. Question is in you long years of experence how useful has it to you to do a TT before?
You can find the requirements under technical guidence when you log into GSR - search tightness.

I am not sure Kirkgas is right or wrong about servicing and repairing. I think you DO need to do a TT. You guys check the technical guidence.

you are wrong with both the highlighted comments
if you NEED to do a TT then only doing it after can prove problematic, ie if you alter a pipe and do a TT after and find no drop then all is well (and you are lucky) but if you alter the pipe, test after and find a 1mb drop then you cannot CONFIRM that the drop isnt on your new work, the amount of muppets who i have to keep right on this is terrible, they say as long as you do a TT after the install and it is under permissable drop then you are fine,
the second point is not open for discussion there is MY way and the WRONG way, seriously, if you think i'm wrong then you need to check the technical guidence, apologies may be written on the back of a £5 note

 

[kirkgas]

I was waiting for you to come along and answer on this lol. My exact feelings on it. You are opening a can of worms and will end up with an unhappy customer.

haha at least i'm dependable

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

if you had to do a tightness test on each appliance you work on, then why the need for service/isolation valves? Test for tightness at P1 and spray with LDF no need to do full carcass unless alteration to pipework, write what you done on paperwork

Yes that is right.

Mr TP is home and he can't believe such heated debate among all you Gas Qualified engineers!

There is nothing wrong with doing TT before any work, I said I think it might be a good idea and I asked whether you had found this useful.

According to the Rules, however, eg: on GSR technical guidence website, it is NOT compulsory to do a TT before any gas work.
Kirkgas, what you are saying makes sense but the question is about what what are the rules.

MR TP tells me you should do a TT before anything else IF the customer smells gas.
Like Kirk gas he would do a TT before any alteration of the gas carcus eg installation of new appliance, because AFTER any alteration to the gas Carcus NO DROP is permissible.

Kirkgas this is what you said and you are right.
There is no permissible drop after installation of boilers or other pipework alterations.

As for after servicing no TT OK.
Anything else:
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
6 (6) Where a person carries out any work in relation to a gas fitting which might affect the gas tightness of the gas installation he shall immediately thereafter test the installation for gas tightness at least as far as the nearest valves upstream and downstream in the installation.
There i s more explanation of this at GSR website, when you login as installer.

 

[kirkgas]

Yes that is right.

Mr TP is home and he can't believe such heated debate among all you Gas Qualified engineers!

There is nothing wrong with doing TT before any work, I said I think it might be a good idea and I asked whether you had found this useful.

According to the Rules, however, eg: on GSR technical guidence website, it is NOT compulsory to do a TT before any gas work.
Kirkgas, what you are saying makes sense but the question is about what what are the rules.

MR TP tells me you should do a TT before anything else IF the customer smells gas.
Like Kirk gas he would do a TT before any alteration of the gas carcus eg installation of new appliance, because AFTER any alteration to the gas Carcus NO DROP is permissible.

Kirkgas this is what you said and you are right.
There is no permissible drop after installation of boilers or other pipework alterations.

As for after servicing no TT OK.
Anything else:
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
6 (6) Where a person carries out any work in relation to a gas fitting which might affect the gas tightness of the gas installation he shall immediately thereafter test the installation for gas tightness at least as far as the nearest valves upstream and downstream in the installation.
There i s more explanation of this at GSR website, when you login as installer.

the point i have highlighted and underlined isnt correct, see if you can check on GSR and see where you have went wrong

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

oo I love a quiz! The worst thing about GSR is trying to put in the impossible password to login, not sure how to change it to PASSWORD.
And Mr TP has gone out again so i can't ask him.

 

[tamz]

From IGE UP1B

5.4 NEW EXTENSIONS/ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING INSTALLATIONS
Before commencing the new work, the existing installation shall be tightness
tested in accordance with clause 5.3.2 and any permissible pressure drop over
the 2 minute test period noted (see also Sub-Section 4.2).
Upon completion of the work to the existing system, the tightness test shall be
repeated and the pressure loss after the 2 minute test period shall be no greater
than that previously measured and there shall be no smell of gas.

This is how it should be done.

 

[GQuigley67]

if you don't do a TT before you alter pipe then you can't prove tightness simple as really

 

[Bartdude]

Well Kirk teaches the rules every day,so now I guess he's on a busmans holiday

 

[kirkgas]

From IGE UP1B

5.4 NEW EXTENSIONS/ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING INSTALLATIONS
Before commencing the new work, the existing installation shall be tightness
tested in accordance with clause 5.3.2 and any permissible pressure drop over
the 2 minute test period noted (see also Sub-Section 4.2).
Upon completion of the work to the existing system, the tightness test shall be
repeated and the pressure loss after the 2 minute test period shall be no greater
than that previously measured and there shall be no smell of gas.

This is how it should be done.

tamz you are a sook, she had to go and find the answer, as she keeps advising us where we can check info,

 

[kirkgas]

if you don't do a TT before you alter pipe then you can't prove tightness simple as really

you can if you are lucky and there isnt a leak to start with cause when you are finished there wont be one, however it is too late after you have finished if you find a leak when you are done

 

[GQuigley67]

true but you know what i mean, im not typing long answers today only got 1 hand lol

 

[kirkgas]

oo I love a quiz! The worst thing about GSR is trying to put in the impossible password to login, not sure how to change it to PASSWORD.
And Mr TP has gone out again so i can't ask him.

i dont think you can change it, once registered to use it you key in the 6 digit company number then the individual operative number, and if you are not the registered person you shouldnt be logging in to the inner sanctum where we the great of gas can keep our distance from the ordinary plebs of society

 

[kirkgas]

true but you know what i mean, im not typing long answers today only got 1 hand lol

yea, forgot you were getting operation, how did it go, must be not too bad if you are on here

 

[GQuigley67]

was only 10 minute op and wasn't sedated so im fine in a way, starting to get worried the fact my finger has been numb for nearlly 10 hours, local anesthetic usually wears off around 4 hours, waiting on nhs 24 phoning me back hope they haven't damaged a nerve maybe i'm being over cautious but i havent been numb this long before

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

tamz you are a sook, she had to go and find the answer, as she keeps advising us where we can check info,

tamz is a Gem!
That's how I like information- facts, figures, references and research!!!

You know I'm not a heating engineeer, I didn't and don't know the answer to the original question and I will never need to. What interested me is that surely this is info that heating engineers should know and should easily be able to check up on. And yet it seems in this thread that they don't!

Actually I am sure most do. I'm also sure most heating engineers do know what they need to and do a very good job. And then there is a worryingly high number of people out there just having a go with out the qualifications or the knowledge. And crucially not even realising how dangerous thay are.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

i dont think you can change it, once registered to use it you key in the 6 digit company number then the individual operative number, and if you are not the registered person you shouldnt be logging in to the inner sanctum where we the great of gas can keep our distance from the ordinary plebs of society

I don't Want to argue with you BUT...! Only joking
Actually, despite being a pleb it is my number and password.
Well, I think it is? May be it isn't, may be it is Mr TPs? We do have other opperative too.
I am a director and we have only ever had one log in number, which is 5 digits and a password.
The problem I have with the password is the mix of captials, lower case and numbers.
I think i type them in all the wrong order and I don't think it recognises the numbers if I type on the number keypad. I always end up having to imput it all 3 or 4 times before I get in.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

this is simply cos you are not a gas safe register plumber

 

[kirkgas]

I don't Want to argue with you BUT...! Only joking
Actually, despite being a pleb it is my number and password.
Well, I think it is? May be it isn't, may be it is Mr TPs? We do have other opperative too.
I am a director and we have only ever had one log in number, which is 5 digits and a password.
The problem I have with the password is the mix of captials, lower case and numbers.
I think i type them in all the wrong order and I don't think it recognises the numbers if I type on the number keypad. I always end up having to imput it all 3 or 4 times before I get in.

as director then the company number is yours, and as you rightly say and know you dont need gas quals to run a gas company (which is where a lot of the bother starts haha) im sure when i log in i use company 6 digit number and personal ID number, but cant be 100% as i dont go on it too often and cant remember just seem to do it automatically, as we get update info from various sources, you will obviously also know as director you have sole responsibility for ensuring you have a robust Gas Management System or Method Statement and that all your operatives are kept updated with all new reg changes, TB's and every other piece of blame that will come your way if one of the operatives comes a cropper, but thats why you get the big bucks and the company Jaguar