Mains Cold Water Supply - Think I had a cowboy plumber at my house !

[IATM]

Hi Guys,

I have had various plumbing issues in my house after having a few plumbers in and I cant seem to find one who knows what they are doing or how to fix issues so I have decided to investigate them one by one and fix them myself or tell the plumber what to do.

Roughly a year agoI had a leak in the mains cold water supply tap/stopcock under the kitchen sink - this got worse and worse and eventually we have a plumber in to "fix" this - he spent 2 hours apparently fixing it but said we could not open it full as that was not a good idea/good practice ....

This "not a good idea" he fobbed my parents off with I realize now was proboably because if you turn the stopcock more than half approx it starts to leak which leads me to think he diddnt fix it properly as he should have done and took 300 quid off me for the pleasure of doing.

Can you correct me if I am wrong but I should have the ability to turn it full to benefit from the full mains pressure ( I think this is having an affect in the upstairs gravity fed system I have in the two bathrooms)

any links to quality stopcocks etc I can use to tell the plumber to fix and any other notes when fixing this issue.

I would be really grateful for any help as I just can't seem to find anyone who can say yes thats the issue this is what it will be to fix it

happy to provide pics if need be

Thanks

 

[IATM]

just to clarify what hot water system do you have? cylinder and tanks in the loft?

its sounds like the plumber did not change the stop tap, you may have some dirt blocking some taps and the bathroom fitter fitted high pressure mixer taps on a low pressure system. Im sorry you have had such poor service from so called tradesmen.

what type of shower is fitted? most shower dont require a 22mm supply to them.

Hi AWHeating,

In all honesty I could not tell you 100% exactly what hot water system I have I am happy to go check if you can point me in the right direction.

I agree with you it appears the mains stopcock was not changed so that is my first step in ensuring my water system in the house is all back up to top notch.

Thanks for the kind words, it has been a pain - its not even a money issue as I dont mind saving up etc or spending the money if it means the issue is fixed but no one seemed to be able to/want to do it.

We intended to fit a electric shower in my main bathroom so we asked a plumber to come in and put the fitting in place so that an electric shower can be fitted - after we had the work done our electrician decided to advise us that its not recommended to have two electric showers in one house - thats a whole different story so thats why I am thinking if I can get the pressure issue resolved I have have a half decent low pressure mixer installed - I hope

In regards to the set up - I have a hot water tank in the airing cupboard - cold water tank in the loft - something in the garage (white box) normal central heating system - its a new ish build detached house approx 10 years old - sorry this is all new to me and just been reading up on it over the last week or so and I don't want to pretend I know what I am talking about either lol.

any other information I can provide - what surprises me is firstly the pressure was great before two possible factors - the mains plumbing screw around and changing of bathroom suit in en suite

second question that makes me ponder is that both the hot and cold in both upstairs bathrroms of are very poor flow/pressure so makes me think it has to do with either the flow from the tank in the loft/airing cupboard or the system in general.

I am pondering on ways to try and locate it to a specific part of the system but no ideas come to mind as of yet. I suspect the taps are a key thing to do with it as I check under the sink earlier on and the flexi hose pipes are stupidly long that they are in a very big S shape and paired up with the fact that these taps probably require a min of 0.5 bar pressure that its just rubbish

thats just my 2 pence

 

[AWheating]

the house is to young really to have gravity cold supplys fitted to anything, i would suggest the best course of action is to flush the main testing its performance, replace the stop tap and non return under the sink on the main and then checking the fixtures like the float valves for dirt etc..... the poor hot water peerformance is most likely down to the taps fitted. 10m equals 1 bar so to get 0.5 bar to a upstairs tap you need the tank in the loft to be 5m above the tap if that helps give you a better understanding.

 

[Dannypipe]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

 

[AWheating]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

i could not sleep at night knowing id charged £300 for 2 hours work in which i had neither done anything or fixed the problem.

 

[chris watkins]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

NO NO NO NO...... Dannypipe don't you dare call these con men plumbers !!!! it is just because anybody can start up & call themselves one, that we have this bad reputation.

 

[IATM]

i could not sleep at night knowing id charged £300 for 2 hours work in which i had neither done anything or fixed the problem.

Your are right - it is really bad - I wouldnt care if they had done it to me (it wouldn have been possible) but obviously done it to my mum and pespecially when she was upset about my dad is what really bothers me.

I watch a lot of these cowboy builder programmers and cowboy traders and its taught me a lot and i can tell a dodgy guy straight away which is why i always get a quote first and get enough information from the tinternet before i meet anyone but it was just one of those times - thanks for your sympathy tho - nice to know there are really good tradesmen out their - just need you all to move up here !! lol

 

[AWheating]

Your are right - it is really bad - I wouldnt care if they had done it to me (it wouldn have been possible) but obviously done it to my mum and pespecially when she was upset about my dad is what really bothers me.

I watch a lot of these cowboy builder programmers and cowboy traders and its taught me a lot and i can tell a dodgy guy straight away which is why i always get a quote first and get enough information from the tinternet before i meet anyone but it was just one of those times - thanks for your sympathy tho - nice to know there are really good tradesmen out their - just need you all to move up here !! lol

the problem with those tv programs is they dont ever show a tradesman in a good light. Its 100% con man, which alerts potential customers to be aware but for the honest tradesman makes it alot harder to gain trust as many customers believe we are all them same. Tarnished with the same brush so to speak.

unfortunatley a program about a trademan who turns up and does a good job and not ripp the customer off makes for dull viewing.

 

[Millsy 82]

the house is to young really to have gravity cold supplys fitted to anything, i would suggest the best course of action is to flush the main testing its performance, replace the stop tap and non return under the sink on the main and then checking the fixtures like the float valves for dirt etc..... the poor hot water peerformance is most likely down to the taps fitted. 10m equals 1 bar so to get 0.5 bar to a upstairs tap you need the tank in the loft to be 5m above the tap if that helps give you a better understanding.

The chances are if they have put gravity HW in then they would have put gravity cold in. It does not really matter on the age.

If the pressure problem started when the CWSC was drained to change the taps then it is more likely air has got into the system. Easy to solve with a hose pipe and a cold tap. Before stripping everything apart costing more money start off with the easiest option first. After that I would start to strip things apart.

 

[IATM]

very true - I do always like it when the lady presenter goes and manages to get free stuff from generous local businesses and also local tradesmen come to help out for free (I know its good publicity for them) but its still nice to see them do this and also nice to see there are people who know what they are doing

 

[IATM]

The chances are if they have put gravity HW in then they would have put gravity cold in. It does not really matter on the age.

If the pressure problem started when the CWSC was drained to change the taps then it is more likely air has got into the system. Easy to solve with a hose pipe and a cold tap. Before stripping everything apart costing more money start off with the easiest option first. After that I would start to strip things apart.

can you advise the best way to drain the whole system and fill up to get rid of the air trapped? thanks

 

[AWheating]

The chances are if they have put gravity HW in then they would have put gravity cold in. It does not really matter on the age.

If the pressure problem started when the CWSC was drained to change the taps then it is more likely air has got into the system. Easy to solve with a hose pipe and a cold tap. Before stripping everything apart costing more money start off with the easiest option first. After that I would start to strip things apart.

gravity cold water is very rare on new systems fitted in the last 20years plus. The only advantage to doing this would be to suit mixers giving equal pressures, otherwise it would make no sense as you need a bigger tank, more pipework and costs more money.

the cold stop tap is faulty anyway so needs repair or changing, for the cost of a £10 valve its best to change it and flush the main. it would only take 20mins in total and remove any ideas the cold main has a problem.

 

[IATM]

any advice on how best to fush the whole system - what i usually do is shut off the main and open all the taps until its bone dry. then i switch on the main and let the water flow through and then switch them off. this ok?

I am certainly going to keep this thread updated with changes and problem resolutions so it can hopefully help someone in the future - i hate going to a forum and someone has came on with a problem - managed to resolve it and not came back to say how lol

 

[Millsy 82]

I have worked in many places that have been built with gravity hot and cold that have been built in the last 20 years around me and a house today about 12 years old all gravity. It all depends on what the developer got hold of cheap 1 site near me heat stores site right next door built 5 years later gravity its not that much more pipework otherwise they wouldnt do balanced cold feeds on unvented nowadays. Im just saying dont rule it out.

A quick way to tell would be turn the mains off and then see how long it takes for water to stop from bathroom taps

 

[AWheating]

the extra size of the tank, its tank stand would add alot of cost. Most modern roof spaces are structually weak and have no supporting walls inside the property which would mean a tank stand would cost easily in excess of £100 if build correctly (assuming they could be botherd to build it correctly). Like you said tho some builder fit what thay have lying in the back yard.

 

[glenno1]

Unfortunately theres a lot of these cowboys out there in all the trades and making more money than me and several on here i presume

 

[jase158]

Is the kitchen hot tap lower pressure then it was before the work was done?

 

[IATM]

In all honesty I couldnt honestly answer that as its been a while but what I will say is that the flow is very good - certainly not as good as the cold but I would expect this as the cold would be from the mains. if I could have the pressure I have downstairs upstairs it would be happy days as they say.

I have two sinks in the kitchen and hot water on both is very good as well as the small WC we have - the hot water in the basin in there is really good and the flush - its just upstairs everything seems to have gone pee tong

 

[jase158]

more then likely it is the taps,
1 easy thing to check is the tap spout head, there is usually a head on the spout of the tap, this can usually be removed with a tool. run the taps with the head removed and see if pressure is better or if you get a load of dirt out.

if it is dramatically increased and no dirt present then you can get replacement heads which allow more water through

if it is covered in dirt, try running system for a while with head off to try and remove a lot of dirt,

if taps dont have head, dont try and take apart (can be very tricky if you don't know what you are doing)

If there is no increase in pressure at all then most likely is a build up of dirt in pipes.

 

[jase158]

Whats That Filter Thingy In A Tap Spout - Another Informative Article From Grand Taps

here is a picture of the different filters available,

the one on the left restricts the water more then the one on the right.

In my opinion this is the only difference between high and low pressure taps, although i may be wrong

 

[IATM]

Whats That Filter Thingy In A Tap Spout - Another Informative Article From Grand Taps

here is a picture of the different filters available,

the one on the left restricts the water more then the one on the right.

In my opinion this is the only difference between high and low pressure taps, although i may be wrong

thats a great link - thanks for that it confirms my own thoughts - the taps in bandq that were specifically for low pressure systems too had ends with bigger holes so to speak and the high pressure taps only had the more mesh style opening....

wouldnt explain the poor flush in the toilets though - unless it was just crap my dad bought by accident off the internet - he purchased it thinking it was good stuff from the tinternet -

I am looking to get new stuff from victoria plumb it seems to get really good reviews from consumers and trade about the quality of their stuff - any thoughts anyone

 

[jase158]

thats a great link - thanks for that it confirms my own thoughts - the taps in bandq that were specifically for low pressure systems too had ends with bigger holes so to speak and the high pressure taps only had the more mesh style opening....

wouldnt explain the poor flush in the toilets though - unless it was just crap my dad bought by accident off the internet - he purchased it thinking it was good stuff from the tinternet -

I am looking to get new stuff from victoria plumb it seems to get really good reviews from consumers and trade about the quality of their stuff - any thoughts anyone

victoria plumb is a pain to fit, but cheap and looks good.

is it the flush that is poor or the filling up of the toilet that is poor? as these are seperate, if there is water in the system but not flushing well then it is the flush valve that is faulty not the water coming in.

if its not flushing because it has no water in it, then its the flow and like then definetly the pipes are clogged up or air locked, i.e.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

one thing no one has mentioned yet, are there any isolation valves on the pipework that are partly closed?
like this

 

[Best]

Low pressure taps tend to be physically larger & with more open flow - like you get with very old taps.
Check the valves from the cold tank are opening fully, as they have been turned off & on to do work - if they are gate valves (normally round red metal heads) then they can seem like they are opening but actually broken inside.

 

[Best]

one thing no one has mentioned yet, are there any isolation valves on the pipework that are partly

You just got in before me! :smile: Would be my first thought.

 

[jase158]

yeah good point and any valves in airing cupboard