Ncs, ar, id ????

[professorplumb]

got my second gas inspection how would you classify the following:

Gas meter not fixed although steel pipework in steel either side hold meter in a non movable position.

Earth bonding is 6mm cable

No tape indicating off position of ECV

Pipe sleeving though wall not sealed to wall eitherside

Pipe though sleeving not sealed at any end, internal wall one side is the kitchen and would vent into a void between kitchen unit and cooker (exposed void under worktop) otherside is in the cupboard under stairs

Combi boiler safety discharge aprox 1m of ground floor turned into wall

Cooker freestanding can be easily pulled out with no chain.

cheers for your help

 

[newbie1]

got my second gas inspection how would you classify the following:

Gas meter not fixed although steel pipework in steel either side hold meter in a non movable position.

Earth bonding is 6mm cable

No tape indicating off position of ECV

Pipe sleeving though wall not sealed to wall eitherside

Pipe though sleeving not sealed at any end, internal wall one side is the kitchen and would vent into a void between kitchen unit and cooker (exposed void under worktop) otherside is in the cupboard under stairs

Combi boiler safety discharge aprox 1m of ground floor turned into wall

Cooker freestanding can be easily pulled out with no chain.

cheers for your help

meter ok if rigid pipework
no tape-ncs
earth bonding-ncs
pipe sleeving-ncs/ar
boiler discharge is ok
cooker-ncs/ar
my interpratation

 

[Paul Barker]

as above but no AR's.

 

[migoplumber]

pipe sleeving could be upgraded to a.r. if there are various other problems with installation pipework.

cooker is a.r. (if used it could cause an incident)

 

[Paul Barker]

Cooker is ntcs

 

[Puddle]

Cooker is ntcs

Agree unless my wife was cooking on it ,then it would be classed as AR,once food ready to eat then would upgrade to ID

 

[Skint]

All ncs.

 

[professorplumb]

Thanks guys,

another thing was the sleeving is not sealed, the sleeving is thorough the wall of the cupboard under the stairs (housing the gas meter and fuse box) and then on the otherside is kitchen. If standing in the kitchen you could see the gas pipe under the work top (no corner carcass)

SO which side would you seal up???

would it be the Kitchen side and in the event of a leak home owner would smell gas when they would go in and out of the cupboard under the stairs. Or would you seal the cupboard under the stairs up as the kitchen area is is kinda open and this is used more often unless client blocks up the open area.

thanks

just trying to cover everything my Gas inspector will see

 

[Paul Barker]

I would seal the meter cupboard side.

I once posed the question of corgi and was told to take my pick so I picked meter cupboard side and the man said "good choice". But there is no rule about it.

Obviously you know that turrets through back of external meter box are sealed with FJC at the meter side. Otherwise seal inside house to vent outside. Within house, you takes your choice.

 

[GreenArmy]

You dont need to seal it on an internal wall. If external wall, sealed between sleeving and pipe internaly and sealed between sleeving and wall externaly. By the way on internal wall only needs sleeving on brick,block,cement,mortar walls. If not sleeved and sealed where required, would be NCS as long as no signs of corrosion to pipe. If signs of corrosion will be AR.

 

[migoplumber]

okay so its not totally clear in the regs, and we all interprete it differently according to our tastes cause we can, and nobody else wants to write it down in black and white regulations for us to follow.
with reference to cooker, it hasnt got its chain, in real world you would simply point out problem to the customer - go to your van - get a chain and fix it, nobody would really cap it off.
but if somebody came along and managed to pull the cooker over (cos of lack of chain) it would rip flexy off and leave gas spewing out of pipe. has to be A.R.

 

[Puddle]

The cooker chain is not there to protect the flexible gas pipe behind the cooker or the connecting supply pipework,it is there for the stability of the cooker and stop it tipping up when oven door open and oven shelf oponed out,the protection of the flexi gas hose and connecting pipework is an added bonus,strange but true !

 

[migoplumber]

right puddle. i have got to have your book page number for that one, i cant believe it ?!

nope thinking hard now back to domestic, cant be right. the flexy's we use in comcat have to be protected from physical damage due to appliance movement.

 

[GreenArmy]

Migo,
The Gas Industry Unsafe Situations Procedure (6th Edition)
Situation 10.12 (look under notes)
to quote:-
A stable free-standing cooking appliance using a flexible connection without a stability device secured to the fabric of the building (e.g. stability bracket or chain) would normally be classified as 'NCS'
Hope that helps

 

[prs1]

If the cooker is NOT stable and does not have a safty chain or stab bracket it then becomes At Risk.

 

[GreenArmy]

Quite correct prs1. I forgot to highlight the stable bit

While we're on the subject of gas cookers. I believe that a gas cooker/hob installed in a flat (not house) has to have a FSD otherwise this is NCS. Is this right?

 

[Puddle]

Any hobs fitted without ffd before reg change would be ncs
Any beleaved or known to be fitted after that date with no ffd would be at risk because you have the added point that they must have been fitted by an unqualified and (dear I say it) incompetant person,also hob gas isolation for hob should be visible,say at rear of side units,not behind oven below

 

[newbie1]

hob or cooker in flat/multi dwelling must have fsd

 

[Paul Barker]

But if it is the customer's existing cooker or hob which they have moved and they had it fitted professionally you are aloud to fit it and it remains ntcs. This is from British Gas TOPS and I have discussed it with Transco who also interpret it the same way.

 

[newbie1]

very shady area as moving it is no different than getting and fitting a second hand appliance
i would not refit a hob in a different location without a fsd

 

[so-solar]

personally i would class a cooker with out a safety chain as 'A.R' for little time and money it can be up to standard. If you think of the harm it could cause, imagine a small child pulled on freestanding cooker and it had 4 pans on the hob of boiling water? It may state that it is ncs but look through that and see the bigger picture!

 

[Paul Barker]

very shady area as moving it is no different than getting and fitting a second hand appliance
i would not refit a hob in a different location without a fsd

Interesting that as a newbie you consider yourself better informed than British Gas and the Emergency Service Provider.

 

[migoplumber]

its about your own personal interpretation of the regs, better to error on the side of caution, and be able to defend yourself in court of law with your opinion of the regs, than to be pleading not guilty to manslaughter mitigating that you thought the regs said it was ok.

 

[newbie1]

Interesting that as a newbie you consider yourself better informed than British Gas and the Emergency Service Provider.

well mr stroppy i wasnt saying i was better informed or knew more than anyone i was merely saying i personally dont see a difference between moving something and fitting a second hand appliance

if something is potentially dangerous why would any sane person move it and say well its no more dangerous than it was before??

 

[Paul Barker]

well mr stroppy

Please don't interpret a mood out of my writen word, your interpretaion is incorrect. I am not a stroppy person, I am calm and informative.

if something is potentially dangerous why would any sane person move it and say well its no more dangerous than it was before??

That isn't the issue. The issue is a matter of interpretaion and guidance in the application of regulations.

I can assure you that of all the leading institutions offering interpretations of regs British Gas and the ESP's err on the side of safety rather than sensibility. For example British Gas At Risk many situations which independents consider NTCS. Some say that BG do so to make work/sales, and some rogue elements do so because there is a massive pressure upon them to perform in sales to retain their job/position. But on the whole as a barrometer, and more particularly the people who write TOPS (procedures) have a keen eye on safety.

I don't call you a newby to insult you, it is the name you have given yourself. Anybody who is new to any trade or scholarly interest who has wisdom will know that he/she has much to learn. To strand out as a newby against founder institutions is unusual of the wise.