Ncs, ar, id ????

[Puddle]

But if it is the customer's existing cooker or hob which they have moved and they had it fitted professionally you are aloud to fit it and it remains ntcs. This is from British Gas TOPS and I have discussed it with Transco who also interpret it the same way.

Yes Paul you are correct in theory but I was referring to a new hob or cooker hob top that has been fitted since change in regulations without ffd

You are talking about items owned by a person pre regulation change therefore would be treated the same as if the appliance was fitted pre reg change, thus able to be used in new premises that now requires ffd
However if the appliance had been purchased after reg change regarding ffd and did not have ffd fitted then the appliance should not be re fitted on moving, if ffd is required in their new premises, even if the place they are moving from did not require ffd on the appliance
That’s the take but nothing being simple, note I mention able to use in new premises not fitted
The hob and cooker would still be ntcs and as we are not allowed to fit appliances and leave ntcs you are not going to get a gas safe fitter to install it and if British Gas did they were wrong, which I know you may find hard to believe, of such a fine institution, it does happen
So although it is unlikely anyone is going to take a hob with them, as time you have it disconnected and made safe then refitted most would use disconnection cost to buy new but if they did, they cannot get refitted by a gas safe person. as we cannot leave ntcs if we have just installed it
With regards the cooker, most will get away with it by doing it themselves, just disconnect the hose themselves and re connect, which they are allowed to do and if chain there just re connect in new flat, that way they can do it because no gas safe fitter has been required and when inspected, if ever, it will just be labelled ntcs
If you were digging deep you could take them to court for installing an appliance ,not to current standards, but it’s their own appliance, in their own flat,do’nt think you will get far, however if not their own flat maybe a issue with tenancy agreement
But by the time things get that deep, I have put the phone down an hour ago, having refused to have anything to do with it and in the middle of my next ‘up to current standards job’
I just do not know why such confusion surrounds gas regs these days
well I have a good idea but that for another time

 

[Paul Barker]

Yes Paul you are correct in theory but I was referring to a new hob or cooker hob top that has been fitted since change in regulations without ffd

I wasn't referring to your actual case, as you say I was citing a specific situation around the topic for the benefit of others. Threads are more widely useful to many without having to stray so far to be in the wrong thread.

 

[professorplumb]

SO is the cooker NCS or AR???

 

[GreenArmy]

SO is the cooker NCS or AR???

See my post on this thread (post 14) and read your Unsafe Situations Procedure.

 

[professorplumb]

Thanks Mark,

appreciate your help. just wanted confirmation.

Simon

Thats it, my probation is now over. Yey

 

[migoplumber]

sounds like its just began! you have to interpetate the regs yourself, thats the way you become "experienced" and always better to error on side of caution, easily defendable. good luck

 

[kirkgas]

a gas cooker fitted with a flexi and no stability bracket is NCS not AR, if you choose to change the regs for your interpretation you risk litigation for giving poor advice that could result in a customer paying for an upgrade that wasn't necessary, yes something that is NCS should be fixed but that is just advice, if it is AR and they use it the could be fined so it is important to classify properly, it isnt the job of a gas engineer to decide what regs they do and do not like, it is your legal responsibility to adhere to them, again there is a lot of interpretation on some regs and i always err on the side of caution but easy ones like stable cooker with flexi =NCS, unstable cooker with flexi = AR,
an earlier post about the chain not being to protect the flexi cannot be right because a cooker connected by a properly fitted fixed pipe does not need a chain

 

[Puddle]

because a cooker connected by a properly fitted fixed pipe does not need a chain

????????

Are you talking about a built in cooker / oven ?

if so,obviously does not need a cooker restraint

 

[RoryD]

Pipe sleeving is At Risk, if the cooker is "wobbly" then AR otherwise NTCS

 

[migoplumber]

kirkgas,
my job as a gas safe registered engineer is to make sure my clients remain safe after i leave site. i will always class it ar because thats my interpretation for reasons stated.
its very easy to quote rule book regs, a child could do that, its another thing alltogether to leave your client feeling safe and happy knowing that your doing your job to the best of your ability. as for litigation they can take me to court if they wish for being over safe. better that than manslaughter.
mind you if they cant sort out the illegal installers, im sure there not going to be over zelous with a cautious one.

 

[kirkgas]

????????

Are you talking about a built in cooker / oven ?

if so,obviously does not need a cooker restraint

no i meant a free standing cooker, the "preferred" way is to fit it with a flexi, but it isnt mandatory

kirkgas,
my job as a gas safe registered engineer is to make sure my clients remain safe after i leave site. i will always class it ar because thats my interpretation for reasons stated.
its very easy to quote rule book regs, a child could do that, its another thing alltogether to leave your client feeling safe and happy knowing that your doing your job to the best of your ability. as for litigation they can take me to court if they wish for being over safe. better that than manslaughter.
mind you if they cant sort out the illegal installers, im sure there not going to be over zelous with a cautious one.

you are absolutely right to make sure everyone is safe, and as i said interpretation is your call but only up to a point, there are statements made about scenarios which are non negotiable, some easy like a stable cooker without a chain is NCS it isnt open to interpretation, and in the real world where we all work a stable cooker without a chain will not cause any harm unless someone opened the oven door to stand on it to reach a wall unit, i always promote a CYA approach but of all the cookers i have left with a NCS for no chain i have slept well that night, more so than saying it was AR and advising them they could face a fine by using it, if this statement was checked with GSR they would say you were wrong and therefore leaving yourself open to hassle, when you last sat your ACS and answered that this scenario was AR you would have been marked wrong

kirkgas,
my job as a gas safe registered engineer is to make sure my clients remain safe after i leave site. i will always class it ar because thats my interpretation for reasons stated.
its very easy to quote rule book regs, a child could do that, its another thing alltogether to leave your client feeling safe and happy knowing that your doing your job to the best of your ability. as for litigation they can take me to court if they wish for being over safe. better that than manslaughter.
mind you if they cant sort out the illegal installers, im sure there not going to be over zelous with a cautious one.

it is comendable to have high standards and keep your customers safe but you cannot alter a simple classification from NCS to AR, you can advise them it is NCS but you would prefer to charge them extra to fit a chain as a safe guard and let them decide, either way you have done your duty but cannot force them to pay for extra work it is however another matter to re classify as AR write a warning notice, stick a warning sticker on it and advise them not to use it and if they choose to ignore your professional advice they could face a hefty fine, and when your professional advice was checked with other GSR engineers or GSR themselves everyone will disagree with your statement and it could look as if you were trying to con them out of money

 

[Paul Barker]

I totally agree.

 

[GreenArmy]

Pipe sleeving is At Risk

No it isnt! Its NCS unless signs of corrosion, then its AR. Come on guys look at your Unsafe Situations Procedures. And to finally clear it up- A cooker without a chain or stability bracket is NCS unless it is unstable, then it becomes AR.

 

[Puddle]

And to finally clear it up- QUOTE]


It was cleared up ages ago!! but seems duracell have taken over thread

 

[derrybongo]

On a recent installation of a new Sima boiler for a flat on the third floor.
the Boiler was situated in a cupboard outside the flat in the hallway (on the 2 1/2 floor if you will) which when in the cupboard the pipework for the boiler (gas and water) came into the cupboard at eye level which was just under the floorboards of the kitchen of the flat on the 3rd floor (is this making any sense)
this was just a plasterboard wall and a rectangular section of the wall in the cupboard approx 12" x 5" was cut out to elbow the pipework into the cupboard along to the boiler on the other wall

Question (at last) should this be sleeved

bearing in mind there is no wall within the flat as the pipework is under the floorboards