new boilers to try

[Killy Bing]

alright guys.

i'm starting to install more boilers myself now and growing tired of just fitting Worcester (guys i sub to fit them so i have been)

so the next combi i'm looking at is the ideal logic plus.

oil boiler is the new Worcester offerings

i want to try ATAG, will be booking myself on their course soon.

SO could you list your chosen boiler with pros and cons ?

without trashing everyone's suggestions because ive noticed soon as someone mentions worcester the thread goes completely off track into a worcester bashing session !!!

 

[Mike Jackson]

Intergas

Pros - simple, large waterways, no diverter in combi, no water/water HE to block up, can run combi or system boiler as open vented, can use as water heater with heating side empty, if pump fails customer still has hot water, choice of rear jig with exp vessel or remote vessel kit.

Cons - Not the nicest looking boiler, a lot of customers haven't heard of them, built in timer is not the simplest. Need to be careful ordering and pricing because of need to buy jig and pipe cover separately.

Atag.

Pros - nice large waterways, loads of room to work on, expansion vessel below boiler which can also be located remotely.

Cons - Pug ugly, combi has water/water HE so still prone to blocking on old systems, lots of customers not heard of them, very fussy about system pressure - will cut out if drops below 0.9 bar.

 

[Leo21]

Cracking response Mike.

 

[Killy Bing]

thanks mike, excellent leading example !

 

[TBServices]

Fit a logic and you'll never want to fit anything else.

 

[Killy Bing]

Fit a logic and you'll never want to fit anything else.

pros and cons please sir

 

[mfgs]

The flue on the logic is terrible, feels like it cost about 5p to make. I have had no confidence in the flue when fitting them, other than that they seem ok. I am a Worcester fan personally, I have fitted loads and have had next to no problems.

 

[smtplumbing]

mfgs they have changed the flue bend, and u clip, you can also get a telescopic flue for them

 

[Ermintrude]

mfgs they have changed the flue bend, and u clip, you can also get a telescopic flue for them

Was going to be my response. It's exactly the same gauge / quality as valiant as it's made by m&g ? Who produce lots of flue systems for lots of manus

 

[solutions]

I have fitted lots of Vaillants all a pleasure to install. Well made with real thought applied to the install process and potential servicing or repair requirements. Simple things like the wiring connectors are just genius compared to almost anything else I have fitted. I havent fitted a ton of other manus mind you but I have worked on plenty. The boiler cover loosen 2 screws unclip and its off.Have fitted mains (pottertons). They are ok but I just dont find the quality is there. Pressed copper tails badly formed out of true and Loose in fittings. FIlling loop almost impossible to fit after hanging boiler (fouls on boiler casing) which mi's dont tell you. Potterton gold h heatonlys easy to fit easy to wire no need to run the pump wiring back to the boiler, great when relocating the boiler. Oh and about as cheap as a boiler can get. I have a friend locally who has started fitting a fair few Aristons and is quite impressed had a look over one forget which but I quite liked it. So many manus use basicly the same set up now. Same low water content french heat exchange same german pabst fan same siemens control boards obviously all with enough alterations not to make them interchangeable but just like modern cars not many truly innovating just assembling the allready on the market parts of the core suppliers.

 

[tamz]

Pro's on a logic?
Small size, easy to mount, pipe and commision, very reliable, cheapish.
Cons
The flue connection is shyte but it seems that it has been changed (never had one so can't comment)
As good a boiler as a Worsester or Vaillant but needs a bit harder sell.

Never clapped eyes on an Atag or Intergas so know nothing about them except they are a niche brand. Even if they were the dogs danglies, i'll give them a miss.

 

[tamz]

I have fitted lots of Vaillants all a pleasure to install. Well made with real thought applied to the install process and potential servicing or repair requirements. Simple things like the wiring connectors are just genius compared to almost anything else I have fitted. I havent fitted a ton of other manus mind you but I have worked on plenty. The boiler cover loosen 2 screws unclip and its off.Have fitted mains (pottertons). They are ok but I just dont find the quality is there. Pressed copper tails badly formed out of true and Loose in fittings. FIlling loop almost impossible to fit after hanging boiler (fouls on boiler casing) which mi's dont tell you. Potterton gold h heatonlys easy to fit easy to wire no need to run the pump wiring back to the boiler, great when relocating the boiler. Oh and about as cheap as a boiler can get. I have a friend locally who has started fitting a fair few Aristons and is quite impressed had a look over one forget which but I quite liked it. So many manus use basicly the same set up now. Same low water content french heat exchange same german pabst fan same siemens control boards obviously all with enough alterations not to make them interchangeable but just like modern cars not many truly innovating just assembling the allready on the market parts of the core suppliers.

If they applied real thought to the install process why do we have to cut 3/4" off the gas tail even if we fit a stand off and the copper is a cant to cut. At least 15 turns on a pipe slice(new wheel). I've counted and it pis ses me off.
Apart from that i like them.
Used to fit a lot of Aristons in the days of the Italy trips. They were always a decent enough boiler and i ever had any problems from the couple of hundred i fitted.
One eye opener on one of the factory trips was they (Ariston) had a room filled with boilers from all other manu's running and hooked up to computers. They took the best bits from the others and adapted them to their own boilers.
I suppose all the other do that too. Been down to Worcester but they never showed us much. more a sales pitch with a couple of tips and freebies to make you feel good.

 

[kay-jay]

Ideal logic plus is by far the easiest boiler to install.
The flue is now upto a decent standard not like the older ones which seemed to be made out of recycled cans of lager

Prewired flex, and room to fit your valves easily are a good bonus.the warranty is back upto seven years as well.

I find vaillants a pita to install by comparison.

 

[jam1979]

We was on a job the other day and I mentioned to customer I was training to be a plumber and she asked me about her boiler she said it's always firing in the middle of the night and I've tried the room stat and that doesn't solve it she said it's been doing it since we had it fitted I went up stairs turned pre heat off on the boiler and bobs ur teapot and Fannys ur grandad that was an ideal logic as we'llwe'll

 

[hammers4spanner]

ideal logic is an installers dream real doddle and piece of to get up and running

vaillant controls i have found custs dont understand them

glow worms doddle to fit although that crappy electrical cartridge on the systems and heat onlys is absolute pants

worcesters fit for the skip easily worst and most overated boiler on market

potterton seem ok although do look cheap nasty

baxi utter crap jig set up and never fit a GA as you will be forever chucking parts at it

ferroli need i say more

vokera shocking rep although everyone i have ever ripped out the custs have said they have been bullet proof!!!!!

fitted a keston last year good flue ideology however again bad rep

my personal preference is ideal throw it at wall and walk away

 

[TBServices]

The flue elbow is still a bit crap, but that's it. Fitted one the other day in a dark A/C, cored the hole, fitted the flue, sun shone down the flue and the elbow lit up like a lightbulb lol

 

[hammers4spanner]

The flue elbow is still a bit crap, but that's it. Fitted one the other day in a dark A/C, cored the hole, fitted the flue, sun shone down the flue and the elbow lit up like a lightbulb lol

cant be as crap as the worcester flues swear they make them an inch short on purpose the flue is never long enough to terminate properly

 

[TBServices]

Also, another pro for logic, if you buy their built in RF prog room stat, it has the same warranty as the boiler (currently 7 years) and uses opentherm. It's really easy to fit, program and use too.

 

[TBServices]

cant be as crap as the worcester flues swear they make them an inch short on purpose the flue is never long enough to terminate properly

Tbh pal it's been so long since I've fitted a Worcester that I can't remember what they're like lol

 

[hammers4spanner]

you've done yourself a favour then they are utter pap

 

[Ermintrude]

Iogics have come a small but measurable distance since the mk one.

Flexible and more durable loop
Better flue connection to boiler - a lot of installers didn't 'click' flue in place.

Sample port on flue elbow for clean and dirty sides. Vertical flue has a port on it too.

You get a hardware kit with the standoff kit.

The blow off and flue are designed to be fitted from inside, ideal when your on 12th floor.

A joy to service and all the wiring is on lhs just as you come in the door.

Turn ch and DHW mode to low and hold on reset ......

Installer mode

Last ten defects with dates (excellent when Tennant telling porky pies)

Also gives temps and flow rates.


Faults:

LCD screen tells custard too much when in standard operation.
Pump over run, fan pre and post purge.....

 

[TBServices]

Yeah the amount of phone calls I've had "the boiler says pump overrun/pre purge, I'm scared it's going wrong". Annoying.

 

[Ermintrude]

you've done yourself a favour then they are utter pap

One good wb is greenspring wall hung DHW unit 17lpm out of essentially a main multi point!

 

[TBServices]

Another pro for the logic - all the packaging is cardboard, so it can be folded down and put straight in the recycling bin. Including the drilling template

 

[Ermintrude]

Yeah the amount of phone calls I've had "the boiler says pump overrun/pre purge, I'm scared it's going wrong". Annoying.

Just tell them unless it says contact installer don't worry !