New build house smell

[Dobson]

Hi, we just moved to a new build. There is a dreadful 'sewer' smell in the house. No outside soil stack. AAV is sited behind bath panel in family bathroom upstairs. Had this replaced as plumber thought may be faulty, no change in smell. We are one of three houses and there is a joint pump station to the main sewer. There doesn't appear to be a vent on the pumping station, should there be? I have read advice and put all the plugs in downstairs sinks and covered with water to form a seal. This does seem to have stopped smell but obviously not answer to problem. Can't get builder to take notice! PLEASE can anyone advise what the problem could be.

 

[exedon2]

That's main cause of problem what sort of a idiot would do that?
Against building regs as well at least one property has to have drains vented.
Probably saved £100 per dwelling and caused endless problems!

 

[Dobson]

That's main cause of problem what sort of a idiot would do that?
Against building regs as well at least one property has to have drains vented.
Probably saved £100 per dwelling and caused endless problems!

Thank you! We have been trying to get info on the drainage but its impossible from the builder. We are also trying to get info from the Agent who on behalf of the building control at the council did (?) the final checks. So far this hasn't happened. We dont know about these things but always felt there should be a vent somewhere. Should this be on the holding tank at the pump station to the main drain. We have never lived in a house without an outside soil stack. Are AAV's not enough?

 

[exedon2]

AAV'S are exactly what they say air admittance valves .
Drains need venting to clear any dangerous buildups of gasses if nothing else.
Methane,carbon monoxide , hydrogen sulphide are just some of possible nasties.
I've worked on pumped sewage systems each manufacturer has it's own instructions.
I still do a certain amount of new build so know somebody has issued a final certificate .Private building inspector seem to be favoured route of many small developers.

 

[hometech]

Experienced this for 4 years in a house that was a self build. Finnaly plucked up the courage to investigate fearing the worse and began dismantlement boxed-in pipes. There was an internal stack with an external vent. Replaced with durgo..smell fixed. Must have been a self certifying plumber as building control would never have allowed it

 

[hometech]

AAV'S are exactly what they say air admittance valves .
Drains need venting to clear any dangerous buildups of gasses if nothing else.
Methane,carbon monoxide , hydrogen sulphide are just some of possible nasties.
I've worked on pumped sewage systems each manufacturer has it's own instructions.
I still do a certain amount of new build so know somebody has issued a final certificate .Private building inspector seem to be favoured route of many small developers.

hydrogen sulphide gas onto copper cold inside a warm underfloor area = blacked pipes...DHW pipes were uneffected.

 

[Dobson]

AAV'S are exactly what they say air admittance valves .
Drains need venting to clear any dangerous buildups of gasses if nothing else.
Methane,carbon monoxide , hydrogen sulphide are just some of possible nasties.
I've worked on pumped sewage systems each manufacturer has it's own instructions.
I still do a certain amount of new build so know somebody has issued a final certificate .Private building inspector seem to be favoured route of many small developers.

That all sounds like it could be our answer, thank you so much. So do you think a vent on the tank or a vent on the house is the best answer?

AAV'S are exactly what they say air admittance valves .
Drains need venting to clear any dangerous buildups of gasses if nothing else.
Methane,carbon monoxide , hydrogen sulphide are just some of possible nasties.
I've worked on pumped sewage systems each manufacturer has it's own instructions.
I still do a certain amount of new build so know somebody has issued a final certificate .Private building inspector seem to be favoured route of many small developers.

 

[exedon2]

I've been involved with building drainage for over 50 years (also where my higher qualifications are) the drains should be vented at there highest point . A combined soil and vent pipe is perfectly acceptable.
As this problem affects all the properties I would suggest you get together to put pressure on builder to get it sorted.

 

[Dobson]

I've been involved with building drainage for over 50 years (also where my higher qualifications are) the drains should be vented at there highest point . A combined soil and vent pipe is perfectly acceptable.
As this problem affects all the properties I would suggest you get together to put pressure on builder to get it sorted.

Thanks for your input. We will get together with our neighbours. We are the highest property so I am assuming thats why we have the most smell.

 

[king of pipes]

Thanks for your input. We will get together with our neighbours. We are the highest property so I am assuming thats why we have the most smell.

And the most likely suitable position for a vent

 

[Ric2013]

We dont know about these things but always felt there should be a vent somewhere. Should this be on the holding tank at the pump station to the main drain. We have never lived in a house without an outside soil stack. Are AAV's not enough?

Back in the old days, each and every house had a soil and vent pipe open to atmosphere. The vast majority of these systems are still giving good service and need no attention as there . I can, however, see a slight disadvantage in having such a system in that each house will have an inside pipe that becomes an outside pipe with associated thermal bridging, whether the stack runs externally or whether it runs internally and up through the roof.

Nowadays, it is common to have fewer open vents than houses. Those houses that do not have an open vent will have a 'durgo' or AAV at the top of the soil and vent pipe. This works until the valve fails and a smell comes up through the faulty valve. Provided there is easy access to replace the valve, and people don't do idiotic things such as box the valve in where you cannot see it, this is not a problem. But the system relies on the fact that at least one house (or more if required at design stage) has an open vent, and some people just don't understand this.

Part of the problem is the (probably unavoidable) grey area between what work really needs a dedicated plumber and what does not. Obviously a general builder could construct a perfectly functional drainage system, but this relies on a fit for purpose building control system, which the UK currently lacks. As others have noted, private building control inspections often lack substance.

 

[Dobson]

Back in the old days, each and every house had a soil and vent pipe open to atmosphere. The vast majority of these systems are still giving good service and need no attention as there . I can, however, see a slight disadvantage in having such a system in that each house will have an inside pipe that becomes an outside pipe with associated thermal bridging, whether the stack runs externally or whether it runs internally and up through the roof.

Nowadays, it is common to have fewer open vents than houses. Those houses that do not have an open vent will have a 'durgo' or AAV at the top of the soil and vent pipe. This works until the valve fails and a smell comes up through the faulty valve. Provided there is easy access to replace the valve, and people don't do idiotic things such as box the valve in where you cannot see it, this is not a problem. But the system relies on the fact that at least one house (or more if required at design stage) has an open vent, and some people just don't understand this.

Part of the problem is the (probably unavoidable) grey area between what work really needs a dedicated plumber and what does not. Obviously a general builder could construct a perfectly functional drainage system, but this relies on a fit for purpose building control system, which the UK currently lacks. As others have noted, private building control inspections often lack substance.

I am learning everyday about plumbing! far more than I ever thought I would need to know. I am grateful for all the interest and helpful replies. So far the opinion is that we need a vent, we are amazed that the builder, drainage people and building control have let this through. The builder is local and well respected, having build lots of properties in this village, so you would think this would have been avoided.
The problem lies now with getting him to correct this, meanwhile we live with the rotten smell.

 

[Ric2013]

I am learning everyday about plumbing! far more than I ever thought I would need to know. I am grateful for all the interest and helpful replies. So far the opinion is that we need a vent, we are amazed that the builder, drainage people and building control have let this through. The builder is local and well respected, having build lots of properties in this village, so you would think this would have been avoided.
The problem lies now with getting him to correct this, meanwhile we live with the rotten smell.

Where is the top of your soil pipe, I'm wondering?

 

[king of pipes]

I am learning everyday about plumbing! far more than I ever thought I would need to know. I am grateful for all the interest and helpful replies. So far the opinion is that we need a vent, we are amazed that the builder, drainage people and building control have let this through. The builder is local and well respected, having build lots of properties in this village, so you would think this would have been avoided.
The problem lies now with getting him to correct this, meanwhile we live with the rotten smell.

No need if you do as I recommended ? it will work till Mr builder he's his act together

 

[exedon2]

Unfortunately very few builders really understand drainage both below and above ground. Add to that plumbers who think aav's and anti vac traps cure poor design your in trouble!
I suspect what's happening in your case is as pump kicks in it causes enough of a vacuum to take seal out of trap before the aav can open.

 

[hometech]

current building control is the perfect example of feudalism in action in the 21st. The clergy (Capita plc) collect bribes (payments that are demanded each year) from the vassals (plumbers) so the Royal ministers (council) can have a recuring income from the peasants (you and I) by inflicting laws in exchange for taxes (forced payments) for everyday living)

 

[Dobson]

Where is the top of your soil pipe, I'm wondering?

The AAV is behind the family bath. That must be the top of the vent pipe? It is lower than the sink but have been told that really is not a problem.

 

[Dobson]

Unfortunately very few builders really understand drainage both below and above ground. Add to that plumbers who think aav's and anti vac traps cure poor design your in trouble!
I suspect what's happening in your case is as pump kicks in it causes enough of a vacuum to take seal out of trap before the aav can open.

So am assuming that a vent on the pump would solve that? Would we still need a vent on the house too?

 

[Dobson]

No need if you do as I recommended ? it will work till Mr builder he's his act together

Got a message today that plumber was coming to fit a 'deeper bath trap and a pan neck on toilet'..whatever that is.. We are not allowing this as we now agree with all on here that we need a vent.

 

[exedon2]

Check out building regulations H1 section 2.18
Also even if the aav was suitable it needs to be above wash basin hight.
Keep it simple vent pipe fitted at highest point of drains .

 

[king of pipes]

The AAV is behind the family bath. That must be the top of the vent pipe? It is lower than the sink but have been told that really is not a problem.

It needs to be above all waste outlets, visible and accessible

 

[Dobson]

Check out building regulations H1 section 2.18
Also even if the aav was suitable it needs to be above wash basin hight.
Keep it simple vent pipe fitted at highest point of drains .

Have looked, thanks very helpful. We have been told that the AAV although lower than the washhand basin wasn't a problem as its only in case of a flood? Would that cause smell? Is it a big job to put a SVP through roof?

 

[Dobson]

It needs to be above all waste outlets, visible and accessible

We have been told that although it is below the washhand basin it is ok because its only in case of flood?

 

[exedon2]

So what your been told is if there is a blockage its ok for the aav to leak contaminated water inside boxing's ect?
Maybe not.
The s&v could be taken through the roof will depend on how easy route is.
Or a external vent pipe taken from inspection chamber at head of drain i think your in whatever is easiest territory!

 

[Ric2013]

We have been told that although it is below the washhand basin it is ok because its only in case of flood?

I'd be inclined to agree that the height of the vent isn't the cause of the smell issue. The lack of accessibility is not something I would ignore. When the membrane in the AAV wears out (give it ten years), you'll be ripping out the panelling to get to the AAV. The drainage system needs to be ventilated at the head of the drain, which will be the house furthest from the pumping station.

If you are an intermediate house, why not have the AAV in the loft? Then it's hidden but easily accessible. You've only got to run the stack through a bit of plasterboard, presumably.

If you are the furthest house and need the open vent, then up through the loft, through the tiles, and terminate above the roof line, with a roofer to form a lead flashing to seal around the pipe. Or as #73. Make sure the distance from windows etc as in ADH are complied with as the open vent will be smelly if it serves several houses.

 

[Dobson]

I'd be inclined to agree that the height of the vent isn't the cause of the smell issue. The lack of accessibility is not something I would ignore. When the membrane in the AAV wears out (give it ten years), you'll be ripping out the panelling to get to the AAV. The drainage system needs to be ventilated at the head of the drain, which will be the house furthest from the pumping station.

If you are an intermediate house, why not have the AAV in the loft? Then it's hidden but easily accessible. You've only got to run the stack through a bit of plasterboard, presumably.

If you are the furthest house and need the open vent, then up through the loft, through the tiles, and terminate above the roof line, with a roofer to form a lead flashing to seal around the pipe. Or as #73. Make sure the distance from windows etc as in ADH are complied with as the open vent will be smelly if it serves several houses.

I'd be inclined to agree that the height of the vent isn't the cause of the smell issue. The lack of accessibility is not something I would ignore. When the membrane in the AAV wears out (give it ten years), you'll be ripping out the panelling to get to the AAV. The drainage system needs to be ventilated at the head of the drain, which will be the house furthest from the pumping station.

If you are an intermediate house, why not have the AAV in the loft? Then it's hidden but easily accessible. You've only got to run the stack through a bit of plasterboard, presumably.

If you are the furthest house and need the open vent, then up through the loft, through the tiles, and terminate above the roof line, with a roofer to form a lead flashing to seal around the pipe. Or as #73. Make sure the distance from windows etc as in ADH are complied with as the open vent will be smelly if it serves several houses.

We only knew we had an AAV when we complained about the smell and the plumber replaced it, no change to the smell. I know it seems silly but we bought the house on 'good' advice, recommendation and reputation. We dont know what the drainage system is particularly and trying to find out is just so difficult. The building control company Stroma supposedly completed final check but they are not coming forward.
There are three houses number 1 is furthest, number 2 has the pump station and we are number three, we have the worst smell and are the highest (land wise).
We are so frustrated by the whole thing, I would move but my Husband wants to stay, we have only been here since January!