New build house smell

[Dobson]

Hi, we just moved to a new build. There is a dreadful 'sewer' smell in the house. No outside soil stack. AAV is sited behind bath panel in family bathroom upstairs. Had this replaced as plumber thought may be faulty, no change in smell. We are one of three houses and there is a joint pump station to the main sewer. There doesn't appear to be a vent on the pumping station, should there be? I have read advice and put all the plugs in downstairs sinks and covered with water to form a seal. This does seem to have stopped smell but obviously not answer to problem. Can't get builder to take notice! PLEASE can anyone advise what the problem could be.

 

[Dobson]

So what your been told is if there is a blockage its ok for the aav to leak contaminated water inside boxing's ect?
Maybe not.
The s&v could be taken through the roof will depend on how easy route is.
Or a external vent pipe taken from inspection chamber at head of drain i think your in whatever is easiest territory!

Oh yuk! 'They' said its only a warning sign and the flood would be water downstairs and we would notice it before it got to the bathroom...so gullible we are!
Where would the inspection chamber be at head of drain? Is that in the garden.

 

[exedon2]

You should have at least one inspection chamber if you have more than one it's probably the one furthest from the pump station that you need for the vent,
They can be quite small (320mm) if drains are shallow.

 

[Ric2013]

I hate new builds. They ought to be good but...

There are three houses number 1 is furthest, number 2 has the pump station and we are number three, we have the worst smell and are the highest (land wise).

So your house needs an open vent. Basically.

Normally, ICs will be something like this:

The red line is the sewer, the blue ones is each house's soil stack to the nearest IC, and there will be a vent either at green dot at the head (house 3) or a separate vent pipe to the IC (yellow). My terminology may not be exact, but you get the idea. I'm showing conventional 600x450mm IC covers, but yours may be small plastic round things as it's a new property. Basically, there will/should be access wherever there is a branch or abrupt change in direction.

It was suggested a HepVo valve could be fitted under your sink in series with the existing trap. This will certainly work if the issue is pressure developing and forcing through the trap. It's a one-way valve. They are expensive but work well. It may shift the problem elsewhere though (possibily to a neighbour...)

What if you find your IC and lift the lid slightly to allow some air to exit? Make sure to cover with a wire mesh though (rats...). This should have a similar effect to the yellow pipe in the above drawing. It's not a permanent solution and it will make the immediate vicinity of the garden smelly, but if it means your house doesn't smell of drains - which, long term, isn't going to be that good for you - it may just keep you sane while you arrange a permanent solution (and may be a good way of convincing your idiot builder that he needs to vent the head of the drain... which, by the way, is in the level 2 plumbing course, so not exactly a difficult concept).

 

[Dobson]

I hate new builds. They ought to be good but...

So your house needs an open vent. Basically.

Normally, ICs will be something like this:

View attachment 62437

The red line is the sewer, the blue ones is each house's soil stack to the nearest IC, and there will be a vent either at green dot at the head (house 3) or a separate vent pipe to the IC (yellow). My terminology may not be exact, but you get the idea. I'm showing conventional 600x450mm IC covers, but yours may be small plastic round things as it's a new property. Basically, there will/should be access wherever there is a branch or abrupt change in direction.

It was suggested a HepVo valve could be fitted under your sink in series with the existing trap. This will certainly work if the issue is pressure developing and forcing through the trap. It's a one-way valve. They are expensive but work well. It may shift the problem elsewhere though (possibily to a neighbour...)

What if you find your IC and lift the lid slightly to allow some air to exit? Make sure to cover with a wire mesh though (rats...). This should have a similar effect to the yellow pipe in the above drawing. It's not a permanent solution and it will make the immediate vicinity of the garden smelly, but if it means your house doesn't smell of drains - which, long term, isn't going to be that good for you - it may just keep you sane while you arrange a permanent solution (and may be a good way of convincing your idiot builder that he needs to vent the head of the drain... which, by the way, is in the level 2 plumbing course, so not exactly a difficult concept).

That is very easy to understand.....lets hope our idiot builder does also, when he ever answers us! Thank you

 

[Dobson]

I hate new builds. They ought to be good but...

So your house needs an open vent. Basically.

Normally, ICs will be something like this:

View attachment 62437

The red line is the sewer, the blue ones is each house's soil stack to the nearest IC, and there will be a vent either at green dot at the head (house 3) or a separate vent pipe to the IC (yellow). My terminology may not be exact, but you get the idea. I'm showing conventional 600x450mm IC covers, but yours may be small plastic round things as it's a new property. Basically, there will/should be access wherever there is a branch or abrupt change in direction.

It was suggested a HepVo valve could be fitted under your sink in series with the existing trap. This will certainly work if the issue is pressure developing and forcing through the trap. It's a one-way valve. They are expensive but work well. It may shift the problem elsewhere though (possibily to a neighbour...)

What if you find your IC and lift the lid slightly to allow some air to exit? Make sure to cover with a wire mesh though (rats...). This should have a similar effect to the yellow pipe in the above drawing. It's not a permanent solution and it will make the immediate vicinity of the garden smelly, but if it means your house doesn't smell of drains - which, long term, isn't going to be that good for you - it may just keep you sane while you arrange a permanent solution (and may be a good way of convincing your idiot builder that he needs to vent the head of the drain... which, by the way, is in the level 2 plumbing course, so not exactly a difficult concept).

One last question, hope you dont mind. The Agent for the Council building control (Stroma) now tell us its nothing to do with them and they cant check every detail on their final check. He did say that on the plans (which he wont give us) there is, or meant to be as he didn't check, an SVP in the small attic above our garden room. There is a small hatch in the ceiling but we have never looked in. He said that there should be a vent tile on the outside, there isn't. Any ideas would be great thanks. We are going to try to look inside that hatch later but it is very high!

 

[exedon2]

If there is a vent tile or even a ridge vent easily identified from outside just looks different!
When you look in roof space if vent exists should be easy to see 110mm pipe.
As for building inspector absolute rubbish . They inspect buildings at a number of stages if vent exists it probably went in at first fix stage so should have been seen at pre plaster inspection.
When they sign a building off they are confirming its built to what the plans and specifications say and its to current regulations.
Maybe time for a word with the solicitor who did the conveyancing?

 

[Dobson]

If there is a vent tile or even a ridge vent easily identified from outside just looks different!
When you look in roof space if vent exists should be easy to see 110mm pipe.
As for building inspector absolute rubbish . They inspect buildings at a number of stages if vent exists it probably went in at first fix stage so should have been seen at pre plaster inspection.
When they sign a building off they are confirming its built to what the plans and specifications say and its to current regulations.
Maybe time for a word with the solicitor who did the conveyancing?

Well, we looked in roof space, nothing to see inside or out. Stroma have sent plans, there should be two svp with roof vents. No AAV on plan yet we have one. The conveyancor is on holiday! We e-mailed builder as its only way to contact him, no reply as yet. Stroma have said its not their job to sort this out. It's getting to the point of moving but how with this smell.

 

[exedon2]

Absolutely dreadful Stroma do have a responsibility they signed of a property not built to plan that did nor meet building regulations.
Any back up guarantee n h b c or similar?

 

[Dobson]

Absolutely dreadful Stroma do have a responsibility they signed of a property not built to plan that did nor meet building regulations.
Any back up guarantee n h b c or similar?

Only an architects guarantee, that is not for 10yrs. We really dont want a fight but just to get it sorted out. With all the great info you have given us we have at least got an understanding of what should be happening. The plans are very different to what we actually have in many respects, build wise. We relied on local knowledge of the builder, we moved 500miles. Had the dishwasher on last evening and the smell drifted into the kitchen. Do you think a vent on the pump station would help, that is in the garden next door?
We really appreciate your time in helping us.

 

[exedon2]

You really do need to have the vent on your own drains, and it's now obvious the original designer though so too.
As a very temporary solution I would follow the advice give by Ric on #78 and lift a inspection chamber lid slightly.
As you main problem seems to be your kitchen sink I would be quite interested to know if the drainage to that is as per plan.

 

[Dobson]

You really do need to have the vent on your own drains, and it's now obvious the original designer though so too.
As a very temporary solution I would follow the advice give by Ric on #78 and lift a inspection chamber lid slightly.
As you main problem seems to be your kitchen sink I would be quite interested to know if the drainage to that is as per plan.

Would that ease the pressure, we have loads of drains in the garden, only one says inspection chamber, is that the one we should lift? The plumbing on the whole house was done by a lad of 21yrs, very nice but I do wonder how experienced he could be. He said he just followed plans given to him by the Boss. He did put a small AAV under sink a while ago which made no difference. The washing machine in the utility is making so much noise from the sink above it when it drains. I put the plug in and it seems to stop the noise, its a very loud sucking noise. We get the feeling that we should be enjoying our new home but sadly we are not.

 

[exedon2]

Yes try the one marked inspection chamber.
The noise from sink is air being draged in to break the vacuum in waste.
All lines up with what we already know.
Nothing wrong with a young tradesman doing the work but maybe more supervision required?

 

[Ric2013]

If in doubt, open the chamber, run the sink taps, and see if you can see water run through it. Then flush the toilet: does water run thorugh it?

I would imagine the two will both run through the same chamber, but if not, let us know as it will give us something to scratch our chins over.

 

[Dobson]

If in doubt, open the chamber, run the sink taps, and see if you can see water run through it. Then flush the toilet: does water run thorugh it?

I would imagine the two will both run through the same chamber, but if not, let us know as it will give us something to scratch our chins over.

Well, just had a call from Stroma, they have contacted the builder {after we had the plans sent to us, which bears no resemblance to our house drain wise, and they were told that a SVP was being installed in our house next week along with venting of the holding tank at the pump station! We have not yet been informed by the builder so we wait to see. I think that Stroma have been very worried that they signed off something which was not correct, although he did add 'its not an exact science' when my husband questioned why plans were different to what we had. I will update you (if you like) if and when it happens!

If in doubt, open the chamber, run the sink taps, and see if you can see water run through it. Then flush the toilet: does water run thorugh it?

I would imagine the two will both run through the same chamber, but if not, let us know as it will give us something to scratch our chins over.

 

[Ric2013]

We ALWAYS like to know how things end up. Otherwise it's a bit disappointing, a bit like a murder mystery with the final page missing.

 

[Ric2013]

(Too much time on my hands, obviously).

 

[Dobson]

View attachment 62485
(Too much time on my hands, obviously).

haha! It certainly helped us, thank you.

 

[Dobson]

Yes try the one marked inspection chamber.
The noise from sink is air being draged in to break the vacuum in waste.
All lines up with what we already know.
Nothing wrong with a young tradesman doing the work but maybe more supervision required?

I agree, the plumber is a really nice lad but he is THE only plumber there and he is only doing as he is told. Stroma have to take responsibility for the end checks surely not being done properly. Hoping this all gets resolved soon. Thanks for all your time and effort on our behalf,

 

[exedon2]

I would agree Stroma are responsible for signing of a property not to plan or more importantly not to building regulations.
But the builder & plumbing contractor are responsible for not following what are fairly simple regulations, it really is there fault you are in this position.
Pleased you are looking like job will be sorted please let us know end result.

 

[SimonG]

Interesting read. Bottom line is that somebody has signed it all off and it's not to building regs.

The real worrying thing is that this only came to light because of the smell, so what else doesn't meet the regs that hasnt caused problems, yet?

Think a strongly worded letter from yourselves or even better a solicitor to say that you intend to hire a professional to do a full survey on the house as the drain issue proves that either negligence or wilfull deceit is at hand and should anything else be discovered etc etc etc.

 

[Dobson]

I would agree Stroma are responsible for signing of a property not to plan or more importantly not to building regulations.
But the builder & plumbing contractor are responsible for not following what are fairly simple regulations, it really is there fault you are in this position.
Pleased you are looking like job will be sorted please let us know end result.

We only heard from Stroma that the work is in hand but the builder still is not responding to us. All the work is done by the builder and his guys. He does have a good build reputation but also one for not responding to problems, this we found out the hard way. I will keep you updated....

 

[Dobson]

Interesting read. Bottom line is that somebody has signed it all off and it's not to building regs.

The real worrying thing is that this only came to light because of the smell, so what else doesn't meet the regs that hasnt caused problems, yet?

Think a strongly worded letter from yourselves or even better a solicitor to say that you intend to hire a professional to do a full survey on the house as the drain issue proves that either negligence or wilfull deceit is at hand and should anything else be discovered etc etc etc.

Quite! We are now worrying about the other hidden things. We have just retired and thinking that a new house would be trouble free. We really dont want a legal fight but also we want a safe home. Thank you for your thoughts. Do all new builds have to have outside vents? I have read somewhere in all the 'stuff' I have researched that not all houses do, what do I know I am a nurse not a builder.....

 

[SimonG]

Quite! We are now worrying about the other hidden things. We have just retired and thinking that a new house would be trouble free. We really dont want a legal fight but also we want a safe home. Thank you for your thoughts. Do all new builds have to have outside vents? I have read somewhere in all the 'stuff' I have researched that not all houses do, what do I know I am a nurse not a builder.***.

From memory, and it's getting old, 1 in 6 vented to atmosphere was regs. But as yours is a development of 3, then at least one should be vented to atmosphere.

Hope get sorted.

 

[Ricky]

Hi, we just moved to a new build. There is a dreadful 'sewer' smell in the house. No outside soil stack. AAV is sited behind bath panel in family bathroom upstairs. Had this replaced as plumber thought may be faulty, no change in smell. We are one of three houses and there is a joint pump station to the main sewer. There doesn't appear to be a vent on the pumping station, should there be? I have read advice and put all the plugs in downstairs sinks and covered with water to form a seal. This does seem to have stopped smell but obviously not answer to problem. Can't get builder to take notice! PLEASE can anyone advise what the problem could be.

Hi

AAV do not relieve positive pressures in drain systems only negative ones, I have been called to many houses where the plumber has fitted AA valves which then causes a positive pressure and blows the traps.

A lot of modern plumbers were not trained when we actually use to fit soil and vent pipes for that reason.


Every house shouild have at least on vent pipe, if you have a unvented cylinder like a lot of modern houses then the regs say that the soil pipe needs to be vented, sorry just another fault that seems to be regulary occuring event now.

 

[Dobson]

From memory, and it's getting old, 1 in 6 vented to atmosphere was regs. But as yours is a development of 3, then at least one should be vented to atmosphere.

Hope get sorted.

Thanks, that seems to be everyone's opinion. This forum has been amazing, I know stuff I never knew I needed to know!