Passable work or bodge job!?

[Rob Foster]

My opinion , 4o years experience.
1. Untidy pipes un supported
2. Yorkshire solder fittings .DIY in my book unless its in a tricky spot
3. If he wanted a job in my outfit..in the old days .he would
would have to improve
4. my boys would really have a go on a friday over a pint they are never backwards on coming fwds



5. However main test is will it leak it may not look pretty

Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Aire]

Where does this myth of lime corroding copper come from?

 

[Welder]

"Copper water tubing has an outstanding history of corrosion resistance in most underground environments. Copper does not naturally corrode in most clays, chalks, loams, sands, and gravels. Certain aggressive soil conditions, however, can cause it to corrode. The basic prerequisite for corrosion is the presence of appreciable amounts of moisture. Other factors that can facilitate the corrosion process include soils having: (1) elevated concentrations of sulfate, chloride, ammonia compounds, or sulfide; (2) poor aeration, which supports anaerobic bacteria activity; (3) large amounts of organic or inorganic acid; and (4) large oxygen or neutral-salt (especially chloride) differentials."

In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.

Taken from www.copper.org

 

[Chuck]

In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.

I have always been under the impression that builder's lime is very caustic, i.e. alkali. In what circumstances does it become 'acidic'?

The only acidic lime I know is the evil green fruit...

 

[Aire]

That's strange because the same website recommends burying copper in lime chippings to act as a preservative.

There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.

I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.

 

[Pickwickpick]

That's strange because the same website recommends burying copper in lime chippings to act as a preservative.

There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.

I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.

You're right, its acidity that corrodes copper, hence areas with very soft water can have problems with copper pipe.

Looks like the issue with copper through cement is galvanic corrosion due to soluble chlorides in the vicinity of steel (e.g. rebar)

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/corrosion-of-copper-in-concrete_o

 

[Burger]

You're right, its acidity that corrodes copper, hence areas with very soft water can have problems with copper pipe.

Looks like the issue with copper through cement is galvanic corrosion due to soluble chlorides in the vicinity of steel (e.g. rebar)

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/corrosion-of-copper-in-concrete_o

Also acidity from a boiler condense can corrode copper

 

[Aire]

Also acidity from a boiler condense can corrode copper

Yep I found that out the hard way, didn't have any overflow pipe, used copper instead not my finest moment

 

[Welder]

Personally, I feel all these formal tests simply fail to replicate the wonderfully infinite range of stupidity and lack of thought demonstrated by the human species. No matter what we look for, we can find evidence 'somewhere' for. Conversely, if we disagree we can find evidence 'somewhere' to back our arguments.

Perhaps all we can realistically do is to protect/do/carry on how 'we' see fit? It does make life extremely difficult when, like on here, we all wish to learn and improve but perhaps we just have to just get on a do what we believe in? Over time things will be proven and we'll all get 'better' at what we do.

 

[king of pipes]

Poetically put Dave, truth is the workmanship is poor and can be improved on massively under no circumstances bury speedfit fittings in a wall the plastic supplies can be tidied up with little effort and if that's his best of effort of concealing pipes into a wall then your in trouble. Kop

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Poetically put Dave, truth is the workmanship is poor and can be improved on massively under no circumstances bury speedfit fittings in a wall the plastic supplies can be tidied up with little effort and if that's his best of effort of concealing pipes into a wall then your in trouble. Kop

Poetically put Dave, truth is the workmanship is poor and can be improved on massively under no circumstances bury speedfit fittings in a wall the plastic supplies can be tidied up with little effort and if that's his best of effort of concealing pipes into a wall then your in trouble. Kop

Just for my own future knowledge (homeowner not plumber!), whats the difference between burying a fitting in the wall and under the floorboards, tile etc? If something leaks it means destruction to get to them either way, right?

 

[Welder]

Under the floor is much simpler to access. Often one can get to them from below if in the middle of the house or above if up top.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Under the floor is much simpler to access. Often one can get to them from below if in the middle of the house or above if up top.

Fair dues. I've learnt more about plumbing these past few days than my previous 47yrs on the planet!! Cheers guys.

 

[Welder]

Fair dues. I've learnt more about plumbing these past few days than my previous 47yrs on the planet!! Cheers guys.

Thank you. It helps us old g1ts keep going when we are appreciated

 

[Jim09876]

I would take it up with the builder who nearly demolished your bathroom wall. One thing chasing out a little plaster, but when the bathroom wall looks like a HS2 job...Sod take!

 

[Johny1092]

Quality job takes time ! time it’s money !
So either it’s cheaper and half decent but all works,
or nice and tidy and more expensive .
Also on retrofit you do not rip half the ,wall to fit nicely copper with clips and insulated etc as cement or other staff will make corrosion to copper and will be leaking .
So minimal destruction and make it work , or full refurb x3 price and all nice under the floor and plasterboard -water has no spine so matter

 

[Andyh]

I would do every joint in soldered copper and brasso the copper after .. and add extra support for pipe work in between joists ...I would obviously make a accessible hatch for any mechanical fittings buried in a wall ... powerflush the chrome radiator before adding it onto the heating circuit... as per m.i. ... re do the dodge brickwork if ... only every customer pays for it

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Proper plumbers use copper for inaccessible pipes. They also don't use 'solder ring' fittings.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Proper plumbers use copper for inaccessible pipes. They also don't use 'solder ring' fittings.

What’s wrong with solder ring?

 

[Best]

Proper plumbers use copper for inaccessible pipes. They also don't use 'solder ring' fittings.

!!! I used Yorkshire fittings on all work for years. Nothing wrong with them for professionals except they cost more than end feed.

I generally only use end feed now, but still use Yorkshire on 15mm

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Proper plumbers use copper for inaccessible pipes. They also don't use 'solder ring' fittings.

Disagree most of the old timers use it and is spec on some commercial jobs

 

[Best]

Disagree most of the old timers use it and is spec on some commercial jobs

Thanks for calling me an old timer.
You are right about solder ring fittings being the norm in the past. Not sure why that was, but rarely see end feed on work done 50 years ago and I was taught to use Yorkshire fittings.
End feed was thought of by many as inferior then.
I suppose you could think of Yorkshire fittings as the faster method of soldering

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Maybe solder ring was the norm in the past and they do have their uses. But these days they tend to be used more by DIYers.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Surely that’s because of price and it is much cheaper for pros to use end feed?

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Surely that’s because of price and it is much cheaper for pros to use end feed?

Maybe. It's just the norm ain't it