Plastic or copper? which is best?

[Deleted member 96286]

I think the increase is down to people finding out plastic isn’t that good / reliable (pushfit)

That's because of misuse and people not following or reading the manufacturers instructions for correct installation. I've never had a leak with Speedfit in years, had one with the new Hep20 which was a faulty valve. I've seen plenty of failures by people not using inserts, mixing and matching inserts and pipe from different manufacturers and using brass olives instead of copper on plastic pipe. Plastic gets a bad name because of numpties ineptitude to learn how to use it properly.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

We'd all love to be using copper all of the time, but it's just not possible.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

We'd all love to be using copper all of the time, but it's just not possible.

Why not upto a couple of years ago I was

 

[Harvest Fields]

As above why not. I use it all the time.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Why not upto a couple of years ago I was

Most of the work I do is in older properties and services have to be fed through drilled joists. Unless pipes are notched or lots of couplings are used, then copper isn't possible. Above floor level or on show, I'll use copper with the press fit kit.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Most of the work I do is in older properties and services have to be fed through drilled joists. Unless pipes are notched or lots of couplings are used, then copper isn't possible. Above floor level or on show, I'll use copper with the press fit kit.

Why are they drilled ? Older should be notched / was notched

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Why are they drilled ? Older should be notched / was notched

Says who? Not in our regs up here. Notched joists have a better chance of a nail going through them from a floorboard or a carpet.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with plastic systems if installed properly.and I'm old skool and being doing this since 1982.
Modern copper isn't a patch on what it once was What we use now is almost thin wall copper depending on the manufacturer.
Why not use plastic if it makes the job easier and quicker and within budget.
There's nothing super special about using copper only these days. Been there and moved on to embrace modern methods.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

I laugh at all you copper only 'experts' using a flexible hose to connect to taps. The amount of failed flexis I've seen could fill a van.

 

[Welder]

That's because of misuse and people not following or reading the manufacturers instructions for correct installation. I've never had a leak with Speedfit in years, had one with the new Hep20 which was a faulty valve. I've seen plenty of failures by people not using inserts, mixing and matching inserts and pipe from different manufacturers and using brass olives instead of copper on plastic pipe. Plastic gets a bad name because of numpties ineptitude to learn how to use it properly.

Interesting perspective.

Not quite sure I've seen in any MIs the fact that so called barrier pipe is gas permeable and can utimately be the cause of early failure of heating system? The 'get out' is that the MIs quote an appropriate British Standard so legally it is up to every user to fully investigate each and every potential application under every possible circumstance. Hmmm.

I also find it somewhat, well dishonest really, to hide that one cannot connect major brands of plastic to copper if there is a chance of flux being present because it causes failures.

Once again, that information is hidden deep in MIs (which, btw, are never given out with the product).

Being morally corrupt, but legally 'correct' is still, in my book, 'dishonest'. You may feel different.

 

[Best]

I still use all copper and all solder joints and I don’t use flexis except those that are part of monobloc mixer taps or shower pumps obviously.
I don’t do site work, so choice of materials is ultimately mine.
The copper pipe is light walled no doubt, but is generally same as was made for last 40 years, so proving to be excellent on heating systems.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

I rarely solder now even though I'm good at it because of the risks to property. There are other alternatives nowadays.
Solder fittings can fail too. I was at one a few weeks ago that parted in my hand because it wasn't soldered properly. My other post a few weeks ago was about pin holes in pipe caused by a careless idiot leaving flux on the pipe.
Installation of any pipe system whether copper or plastic is only as good as the installer. Using copper only is fine if that's your choice, but it doesn't make you any more skilled than the next guy or Super plumber.
I prefer to use whatever system is best for the job.

 

[Steve weightman]

You don't see hardly any copper in new builds. Plastic has less friction and a better flow through it than copper as the wall pipe wall of plastic being smooth

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You don't see hardly any copper in new builds. Plastic has less friction and a better flow through it than copper as the wall pipe wall of plastic being smooth

Naa it’s down to speed and no point in stealing the scrap

Plastic doesn’t have better flow than copper actually it’s worse

 

[Best]

Remember though,

Not all plumbers who use plastic push fit are cowboys,
but all cowboys use plastic push fit.


I installed a new kitchen deck mixer today, to replace a pair of kitchen pillar taps.
Old work was done using 2 flexis from the taps and 2 ballofix isos. Taps were rotating and flexis lethal looking and rusted.
I installed full flow isos and then machine bent 2 copper pipes for offsets, which took me only about a minute each.
Not the hardest of a job, but definitely more skilful than using flexis and push fit.

 

[Best]

You don't see hardly any copper in new builds. Plastic has less friction and a better flow through it than copper as the wall pipe wall of plastic being smooth

Plastic pipe is thicker walled, so much smaller bore.
Sometimes too many push fit bends also used on plastic, due to it being not suitable for fairly tight bends like machine bent copper.

 

[Sparkgap]

Copper for preference and neatness.
When I worked for local authorities they insisted on copper for all water systems in old folks homes, no plastic allowed. I believe this is down to copper being better at killing off bacteria which could grow in plastic pipework.
Another plus for copper is being able to easily connect to pipes up to 100 years old. With all the different plastic pipe specs that have been around will we be able to join on to them in 50 years?

 

[rpm]

Copper for preference and neatness.
When I worked for local authorities they insisted on copper for all water systems in old folks homes, no plastic allowed. I believe this is down to copper being better at killing off bacteria which could grow in plastic pipework.
Another plus for copper is being able to easily connect to pipes up to 100 years old. With all the different plastic pipe specs that have been around will we be able to join on to them in 50 years?

You have lots to learn.

 

[Stigster]

I've never had a leak with Speedfit in years,

I actually have a lot of faith in the JG Speedfit fittings. In our workshop I sometimes have the same fittings on the pressure tester all year, I have a 22 x 22 x 15 tee on there with one branch blanked off so I can switch it up and test both 15mm and 22mm pipework connections. This fitting is mounted and demounted, pressurised and depressurised, flexed and strained and generally abused numerous times a day, all year and they have never leaked or failed on me yet.

I'd trust them undisturbed in a live system without hesitation.

With all that said I do enjoy working with copper a lot more and there is certainly more of a craft to copper work than plastic pushfit but as so many others say, both have their place in our systems.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Horses for corses surely.

If it’s a buy to let flat in Basra (or Grimsby) it makes good sense not to fill it with something the locals will rip out and sell to buy crack.

Plastics also a lot less reactive than copper so if it’s going to be buried it’s probably a better choice. Especially pipe in pipe.

There are lots of jobs (such as listed buildings) where ripping up half a floor simply may not be an option. Again not a bad choice.

However in most cases copper wins hands down for longevity, stability etc.

I’d never trust plastic on a heating circuit, the pipe itself would be fine I’m sure but heat cycling tends to be bad for o rings/seals etc.

 

[Jerry]

I used a heat welded plastic pipe system in Eastern Europe a few years back, for domestic installations.

I was pretty happy with it.

 

[DAVE01]

copper all day long for me but I am old school rats eat into pex pipe just hate that pex I have piped houses with GB on heating we have more or less come full circle separate circuits in heating upstairs and down stairs plus hot water I was working on these 3 circuits in the 70s all to do with cost back then

 

[Welder]

copper all day long for me but I am old school rats eat into pex pipe just hate that pex I have piped houses with GB on heating we have more or less come full circle separate circuits in heating upstairs and down stairs plus hot water I was working on these 3 circuits in the 70s all to do with cost back then

Yah! Another old g1t
70's TV, "We are not alone..."