Rad sizing

[chris watkins]

ive always been a 5 per sqft man and also own a mears wheel for larger than the normal 3 bed house Would that be a stone built with single glazing or a new build or something in between ?
its all very well having the wonderfull program for calcs if you are on new build work where a u value of each surface is probably an email to the desinger away
how do you work out the u value of a retro fit into a single flat in a block of flats built by persons unknown which is clad in some sort of finish you cant id ?where you dont know if the flat above and below may be heated or not and theres no access to loft space to check insulation levels ?

Simples, you do your best with would you can see but of the other 90% of the time you don't guess.

 

[chris watkins]

When I quote a job I always specify the room temperatures that I've allowed but not the rad sizes. I tell the customer that they can have a copy of the calculations including the rad sizes when the job is accepted. If I'm in a rush when doing the quote I can guesstimate the rad sizes needed and do the proper calcs if i get the job. I normally find my guesstimate is larger than the required size.

Now that's standard tender / quoting practice, Mike & I totally agree. No point in wasting time working it all out if no job at the end & why give info away as to what you are going to fit (mainly cos it will be a lot smaller that the others) but when it comes to selecting one well then sizing is a must.

 

[SimonG]

I thought we'd put this to bed and stopped all the petty mud slinging? Chris.

 

[chris watkins]

I thought we'd put this to bed and stopped all the petty mud slinging? Chris.

You hadn't posted for a while, didn't know that you had decided the tread should be shut down! Who's slinging mud ? Not me.
PS. If anybody whats any help or advice in doing heatloss or rad sizing correctly, just post in the arms or mail me.

 

[SimonG]

Busy working, fitting oversized radiators with trv's.

 

[chris watkins]

Busy working, fitting oversized radiators with trv's.

Well clearly you are not busy but if you must have the last word on this thread, so be it.

 

[SimonG]

Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol 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[SimonJohns]

I can't see the point in my mears guage. It's quite good at stopping the table from wobbeling.

If a rad looks good in a room and you know it can heat the room. Then that's what their having

From what I can see this has been a pointless discussion.

From what I can see the ill experienced of us use calculations to avoid mistakes. And the experienced ones use their head.

 

[kay-jay]

Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol 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Lol

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Nostrum]

I can't be arsed to argue/discuss any further, i'm not a mud slinger, mud wrestling with a fitty, maybe.

but please, before we say cheerio to this obviously useless thread, please answer me one question sensibly and logically.

Why would you spend time sizing a gas supply based on the required demand, but not a radiator on the same principle? We are talking about over sizing rads, so why not oversize a gas supply?

My guess is that its because installing an oversized gas pipe is hassle, hanging an oversized rad on someone's wall, nowt.

That's it from me

 

[PlumbersMate]

Chris Watkins would you mind inboxing me more details on how to work out correct size needed please? No rush but I'm intrigued after all this if not a little overwhelmed and would love to understand it all a bit better. Thanks

 

[SimonG]

Well that's made somebody's century

 

[Masood]

If anybody whats any help or advice in doing heatloss or rad sizing correctly, just post in the arms or mail me.

PM'ed you. It's an area that I don't know much about and I'd like to understand it better. Energy efficiency is here to stay, might as well learn all the ins and outs.

 

[petercj]

Surely there must be a computer program for this?

Whipping out your lappie in front of the customer when doing a quote and using a laser measuring gismo, and maybe an i.f. thermometer too, should impress over a few notes on the back of a *** packet?

 

[chris watkins]

Chris Watkins would you mind inboxing me more details on how to work out correct size needed please? No rush but I'm intrigued after all this if not a little overwhelmed and would love to understand it all a bit better. Thanks

PM'ed you. It's an area that I don't know much about and I'd like to understand it better. Energy efficiency is here to stay, might as well learn all the ins and outs.

Hi all, that are interested the book I recommended does not seem to be available from Amazon. Had a quick look around & if you are not a member of CIPHE then cheapest is through this link £23.99.
http://www.centralheating.co.uk/Dome...g-Design-Guide
I think it is the "bullhooks" not just for heat loss.
Peter, I use Myson Rads or Heatline CD (one of the same thing) which are free apply on-line, there is Stelrad's one called STARS which you can download & I am sure lots more, but to use them effectively you need to understand the basics which is where the books come in.
The level 3 JTL book has a section in the system planning at the back, which is not to bad.
Hope this helps

 

[petercj]

Hi all, that are interested the book I recommended does not seem to be available from Amazon. Had a quick look around & if you are not a member of CIPHE then cheapest is through this link £23.99.
http://www.centralheating.co.uk/Dome...g-Design-Guide
I think it is the "bullhooks" not just for heat loss.
Peter, I use Myson Rads or Heatline CD (one of the same thing) which are free apply on-line, there is Stelrad's one called STARS which you can download & I am sure lots more, but to use them effectively you need to understand the basics which is where the books come in.
The level 3 JTL book has a section in the system planning at the back, which is not to bad.
Hope this helps

Why don't you create your own CD chris incorporating a program and the necessary background knowledge?

Put it on Amazon and ebay, this site, etc, and it might be a nice little earner for you.

Get a sponsor, i.e. one of the manufacturers, or maybe Screwfix, or a national merchant, etc, and you'd be well away.

"The A to Z of radiator sizing and system planning written by a plumber" - should go well.

I'll email you with my Pay-Pal details - usual commission! ;-)

 

[chris watkins]

Thanks but no thanks Pete, I will leave it to the professionals, I could not add anything to whats out there.

 

[petercj]

Thanks but no thanks Pete, I will leave it to the professionals, I could not add anything to whats out there.

You have a great advantage over the rest because you are actually doing the job.

As this site often shows, there are a lot of people who have done the college courses, etc, who want to know about applying the knowledge in practice - which is what you know about.

No need to re-invent the wheel - the Internet makes it very easy to sign-post people to chapter & verse on standards, regulations, etc, etc. The nitty-gritty is: 'where to start' (chapter one); 'planning' (chapter two); 'the hardware' - copper v plastic, etc, and so on.

A lot of people who write on technical issues have never done the practical side, or if they have, they're often out of date with the latest technology, practice, regs, standards, etc.

A classic example being shown on this link - it gets good reviews, but the feedback says it mainly covers older systems:-

Central Heating, Installation, Maintenance and Repair: Amazon.co.uk: Patrick Mitchell: Books

You seem to know your stuff, and clearly have an enthusiasm for the theory and the practice - ever thought of teaching in F.E.?