TBOE radiators in new build incorrectly piped

[SJB060685]

You’re a talented man John

 

[ImranF]

Can anyone recommend a cheap infrared thermometer that I could use to measure the temps. I might go into another flat and compare the temps of the RADS.

 

[SJB060685]

I bought one from amazon for about £40

 

[Best]

Can anyone recommend a cheap infrared thermometer that I could use to measure the temps. I might go into another flat and compare the temps of the RADS.

Plumb Center are doing a Testo 830-T2 infrared thermometer for £50 + vat currently.
I have a more expensive Testo model

 

[chris watkins]

Pleased with mine, they might still have some in your local Lidl it was about 4weeks ago

 

[ImranF]

I agree, I will focus on the fact that the flow temperature is 53 degrees where it should be much higher.
Then they can rectify the fact that they have piped it incorrectly.
They also need to get rid of the air in the system.
When engineer was on-site he showed me the heat exchange unit had temp of 80 degrees but I believe that was the incoming hot water from district plant.

Anyway I will order a thermometer to take readings of all my rads.
Will then see if neighbor will assist to provide theirs.

 

[ImranF]

One more thing I can recollect in my mind is when the first visited the flat last year, they did mention they moved something to the highest setting. It could have been the pump or it possibly could have been the thermostat for the heating in the heat exchange. The thermither range is between 35 and 75 degrees. Maybe there could be a possibility that the thermostat setting is still stuck on the original setting or maybe it's not functioning correctly. I can't turn it as it seems to be stuck in its current position which is at the highest setting.

 

[John.g]

If the rad inlet temperature is 75C then you won't be able to keep your hand/finger on this for very long, if its = or < 53C then you will be able to.

 

[Pickwickpick]

View attachment 37668
Pleased with mine, they might still have some in your local Lidl it was about 4weeks ago

I got one of those too, quite impressed for the price.

 

[ImranF]

Ok I have a response.
They contacted the manufacturer stelrad and they told them they need to swap the flow and return.

I have also asked them to resolve the incorrect flow temperature as it should be much higher.

 

[chris watkins]

Ok I have a response.
They contacted the manufacturer stelrad and they told them they need to swap the flow and return.
I have also asked them to resolve the incorrect flow temperature as it should be much higher.

So hopefully all will be resolved, it is a wonder this into web thing.

 

[Pickwickpick]

Ok I have a response.
They contacted the manufacturer stelrad and they told them they need to swap the flow and return.

I have also asked them to resolve the incorrect flow temperature as it should be much higher.

Good result, do hate how these developers take the pish so badly, you really shouldn't have to fight that hard for them to provide a pre agreed upon service/result!

 

[ImranF]

To be honest, most people wouldnt even check. As long as their rads get hot they would be not realising there is a problem.
Anyway they also have to resolve the fact that there is a lot of air in the system. Not sure how power flush is going to solve it. Assume their must be air ingress from somewhere.

 

[chris watkins]

Anyway they also have to resolve the fact that there is a lot of air in the system. Not sure how power flush is going to solve it. Assume their must be air ingress from somewhere.

Check the inlet side of the pump & pipe work until you get to the expansion vessel.
What is the pump set to ? (let me guess fixed speed III)

 

[John.g]

That's interesting.
Perhaps the developer looks after the secondary circulation as well? and has a flow meter plus the flow and return temps to calculate the energy usage for each user billing purposes.

 

[ImranF]

There is a meter on the pipework in the heat unit. Now I will try to figure out how that actually works.

 

[John.g]

If they are serious about accurate energy consumption then they would have to measure the deltaT as well. Is the bill presented as kWh/month? Or what and purely for comparison purposes you might like (or not) to post one period's usage.
Any circ pump visible there?.

 

[ImranF]

They provided pay as you go meter. This is only for hot water and heating. I have standard meter for electricity.

For months where I don't use heating it costs £20 a month. During winter it cost me around £60 a month with the inefficient setup.

Basically this is for a family of 4.
Also I know they take £10 a month in service charges to cover for the gas in the central plant and for maintenance of everything including the unit in the flat.

This seems far more expensive then gas boiler.

I will look at the Meter and check the KW usuage. The rate is at 7.9p per unit used. I believe there is a daily charge of 20p a day. So around 6 to 8 KW a day usuage.

I am quite Fortunate, apparently one bedroom flat was paying more than us to assume something is wrong with his meter.

 

[John.g]

You are doing very well, I would have expected at least ~ > 30 kwh/day for HW+CH. If you are/were using say 7 kwh/day for HW only; this equates to a usage of 30 ltrs/person/day @ 60C or 50 ltr/person/day @40C, pretty normal/lowish usage IMO.

 

[John.g]

Hadn't copped on to the£60/month in winter which would equate to ~ 25 kwh/day for HW+CH, quite good.

 

[ImranF]

Plumber is here now. He said 53 degrees flow is fine for the flow. He said 70 degrees would be too hot. That means the radiators must be oversized as the are delta 50 rads.

 

[John.g]

Has he plumbed the rads TBOE now?.

 

[ImranF]

Doing it now. So let's see what happens.

 

[ImranF]

Ok works completed. 58 degrees on the flow and the return is 52 degrees. One thing we noticed, radiators can be bleed of air and the system has no air anymore. Silent central heating for the moment. Radiators are much more hot to feel. Still don't think they are running at full potential and to be honest he should have atleast balanced them as there are temperature variations between flow and return between all rads.

I will leave heating on for atleast an hour a day to see if air keeps returning in the system.

Does anyone think that the flow temps should be higher but don't forget that we have district heating system. Input Temp is around 80 degrees so not sure if heat exchanger can heat the cold water to 70 degrees. Engineer mentioned that the water in the radiators would be higher than what he is seeing on his thermal camera.

 

[John.g]

You have, (58+52)/2)-20, "35 deg" rads which will output 63% of 50 deg rads, the rads may have been over sized to take account of this, who knows?. If you gave dimensions of a room and the dimensions of its rads then someone on here would have a fair idea IMO as to under sizing or not.
I see you have 2 rads in a 30 M2 L shape so maybe you can just post the dimensions of those two rads.