Train 4 Trade Skills | Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board | Page 18 | Plumbers Forums

Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws

Discuss Train 4 Trade Skills in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums

I know this sounds bad, we've just had the t4t guy in for the second time. The first time I researched on the net and found all these threads, my husband kept him at the door for a while, giving him the cd back. But he managed to get in for another chat.

This is for the electrical course, wondered if anyone here has had any experience with that. Because it is harder to find anything on the electrical side as it is this.

I a left wondering what and how can we go about finding out any more info. Paul rang his mate who is a spark and he didn't know of them.

Any help here guys would mean so much for me.

I totally get that experience is everything, but there are so many bad people out there. Who do you trust, you know. We had such a bad experience with a plumber.... even some electritions.

Thanks to anyone that can help us.

Dawn and Paul.
 
I know this sounds bad, we've just had the t4t guy in for the second time. The first time I researched on the net and found all these threads, my husband kept him at the door for a while, giving him the cd back. But he managed to get in for another chat.

This is for the electrical course, wondered if anyone here has had any experience with that. Because it is harder to find anything on the electrical side as it is this.

I a left wondering what and how can we go about finding out any more info. Paul rang his mate who is a spark and he didn't know of them.

Any help here guys would mean so much for me.

I totally get that experience is everything, but there are so many bad people out there. Who do you trust, you know. We had such a bad experience with a plumber.... even some electritions.

Thanks to anyone that can help us.

Dawn and Paul.

Try the electricians forum?
 
Hi

This must be the longest thread in the history of forums :stooge_curly:.


I have trawled through these pages and read with interest the negatives and positives. What has surprised me is the blinkered views of some of the contributions. I cant really understand why people working within the plumbing and heating trades would try and put off someone from taking a course which at the end of the day gives them a recognized qualification ?. One of the main points within the postings is the terminology 'Experience', this pops up time and time again; I ask myself, how does someone who is not in the business actually get a start ??. The answer is simple isn't it, you apply for one of the thousands and thousands of plumbing apprenticeships on offer, get the job and undertake the vocational training the employer pays for, after which you are then a time served fully qualified plumber or heating engineer.

Er, excuse me but that aint gonna happen in 2011 except to the very lucky few. This is where training providers come in and thank goodness they do as well. Is the training course not experience ?? I know that there is a difference between the workshop and Mrs Smiths house but hey the principles are the same and at least the trainee gets practical experience of the principals. I think everyone knows that 2 houses are never the same but please give the learner credit for initiative and realize that the individual does have a brain which functions perfectly well enough for them to recognize that.

To the negative posters in this thread I would say just step back one second and examine the options open to someone who wishes to enter the plumbing industry and put yourselves in their shoes. At the end of the course they are at least walking if not jogging towards their goal of becoming a plumber. By discouraging someone you do them no favours. At least when saying to someone "dont do it" give them the alternatives (do you have any ????).

Like em or loath them training providers like Train4Trade fill the gaping holes in the industry left by underinvestment and greed which is endemic to the construction industry and which the whole country pays the price for.

TA

ps. Me = 5 year indentured apprenticeship (completed 1975)
City & Guilds Advanced Craft Certificate
Yorkshire Council for Further Education Certificate in plumbers work (now defunct)
ACS CCN1, CENWAT and CPA1
Level 3 City & Guilds energy & Efficiency
 
i think you confuse facts with negativity

there are many positive people without plumbing work having paid out £1,000s on courses and time

expectations should be realistic

facts should be known, like the C&G tech cert is not the recognised full qual and will not get you JIB registered as a plumber
 
If all those experienced plumbers on here who have complained about the lack of experience of anyone trying to better themselves has, why dont they invite those people to come and work for them? I understand public and employers liability insurance then comes into play, but even when offered as a sub-contractor to a plumber for a pound day with our own public liability insurance we still get turned away saying we are a risk.

I've seen posts of experienced plumbers complaining that they may have to go to a job to sort out an inexperienced mans (or ladies) work, well if they helped to make one more experienced person the plumbing industry will continue; because as I see it at the moment all the experience is going to be too stuborn and ignorant to help, which will lead to a great deal of that experience lost in a generation.

I understand the construction industry is in a bad state, I am feeling the brunt of it working as an Area Sales Manager for a builders merchant in the East Midlands, but despite that, now is an ideal opportunity to encourage instead of disheartening those in training while we have time on our hands.

All people want to do is make a go of their lives because they maybe unhappy, have been made redundant or a multitude of circumstances.

I am currently on the T4TS course plumbing 6129 and NVQ 2 on week 4 practicle in 2 wks time. I am thoroughly enjoying it, aswell as gaining valuble knwoledge which in turn gives me confidence to speak to plumbers who use me through the merchant to help them get what they need.

I wish all who read this every success with their career wherever it may lead, and hope there may be renewed attitude from plumbers who are worried about losing work. If you are a good plumber with a good reputation work will come to you.

Thanks

Carl
 
Good for you Carl. Although you cannot go out there and claim you are a plumber with the 6129 you will have a sight more idea than without it and practical experience as well. What could you have done had companies like Train 4 Trade Skills not been operating ???. I really don't understand why Plumbers get so hot under the collar about such training centres, I recon it's just sour grapes. Everyone deserves a chance even if its only half a chance :D
 
I know I cant class myself as a qualified plumber with the 6129 but it gives me and many others a basis to build from.
I talk to quite a few plumbers around the various branches, most feel that when I mention I'm doing the course I'm trying to get a quick fix into the trade. I'm sorry but already having over 11 yrs in the construction industry I know it takes more than reading a few modules and doing 6 wks in a bay in a training centre to be a competent qualified plumber. Once I tell them this they have a totally different attitude and want to discuss things (luckily).

I want to succeed and that's what's going to happen even if it takes another 3/4 yrs just to get to level 3 and beyond. We are always learning.
 
Personally as an employer

If all those experienced plumbers on here who have complained about the lack of experience of anyone trying to better themselves has, why dont they invite those people to come and work for them? I understand public and employers liability insurance then comes into play, but even when offered as a sub-contractor to a plumber for a pound day with our own public liability insurance we still get turned away saying we are a risk.
I don't employ retrainers because i like to employ apprentices who i can mould into shape to suit my way of working. I know they are not there to only get enough experience to set up as a competitor. I don't do slave labour or serfdom either!

I've seen posts of experienced plumbers complaining that they may have to go to a job to sort out an inexperienced mans (or ladies) work, well if they helped to make one more experienced person the plumbing industry will continue; because as I see it at the moment all the experience is going to be too stuborn and ignorant to help, which will lead to a great deal of that experience lost in a generation.
I have passed my experience to many over the years and am quite willing to help anyone who wants to learn.

I understand the construction industry is in a bad state, I am feeling the brunt of it working as an Area Sales Manager for a builders merchant in the East Midlands, but despite that, now is an ideal opportunity to encourage instead of disheartening those in training while we have time on our hands.
Working for a merchant you should know the effect the recession has had on the whole building trade including plumbers. You will also have seen first hand the amount of new start ups and how long they last. What made you think plumbing was a good choice. You have, with your background, at least some insight of what you are letting yourself in for.

All people want to do is make a go of their lives because they maybe unhappy, have been made redundant or a multitude of circumstances.
The plumbing game is no greener than any other. Ive yet to meet a plumber who thinks we are in some kind of utopia.

I am currently on the T4TS course plumbing 6129 and NVQ 2 on week 4 practicle in 2 wks time. I am thoroughly enjoying it, aswell as gaining valuble knwoledge which in turn gives me confidence to speak to plumbers who use me through the merchant to help them get what they need.
2 inch and half bends and a cu9?

I wish all who read this every success with their career wherever it may lead, and hope there may be renewed attitude from plumbers who are worried about losing work. If you are a good plumber with a good reputation work will come to you.
That used to be how it was but now unless you have a really good preceding reputation and a niche market or are willing to work for what effectively, is less than minimum wage, due to the recession and massive over subscription to the trade, this is no longer the case.

Thanks

Carl
 
1,000s of people have done the 6129 off their own back because they want to get into the trade. It was never possible to expect employers to employ all of these.

The traditional route of apprenticeships is supply and demand. When the trade needs it they take on an apprentice and they train in college and on site getting the relevant skills. This ensured a steady streem of skilled trades people into the trade as and when required.There are still numerous apps who come into the industry ensuring that the skills you mention are passed on BTW.

Then they developed the 6129 to give people a chance of getting skills without a job. The people getting the 6129 only was never suppose to be giving them the full package just underpinning knowledge for them to build on when an opportunity arises or the trade needs it. The trade does not need it.

There are many things i would like to try in life but i will never get the chance, should i try these things and when i mess it up blame others for not training me?

Lets be realistic, I have seen many posts from 6129's claiming to be some type of victim due to 'stubborn and ignorant' plumbers. Is it not those who demand an entry into the trade who are stubborn and ignorant?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Having recently taken on 6 plumbers, all with the relevant paperwork that claims they have been trained to a suitable standard, I'm not entirely sure who is kidding who. People complaining about employers using foreign labour, so I go out of my way to take on British workers, not because of costs because everyone is paid the same irrespective of where they come from. Then people complain that after investing their life savings in gaining qualifications in the plumbing industry they can't get work as employers are reluctant to take the risk. An employer may advertise a post paying say £150 a day and all and sundry will be applying for the job. And here lies the problem you have the guys who have just finished their training thinking they are now going to get a job paying £39k a year and think the employer should still offer them onsite training just to get the simplest of tasks done.
Now going back to where I started with taking on 6 plumbers, the first one arrived all keen and ready to go, started @ 8am and by 11am was still trying to fathom out how to drain a heating system with a broken drain cock, he ended up deciding that it was best to drain a 17 radiator heating system via the air vent of a radiator into a carrier bag, by 3pm he was bored (me too) and decided to throw the towel in and left. Following day next 2 plumbers arrive, went through with them exactly what had to be done, told them the system was still full of water and needed to be drained and even went as far as to tell them they needed to drain via the radiator valve rather than the drain cock. "No probs mate leave it to us" two hours later a phone call "we've flooded the kitchen out mate what do you want us to do?" they had tried draining via the rad valve but left the other valve fully open. Next plumber arrives told him what needed to be done, not only did he decide to throw away radiators that were not to be removed, he trashed wooden flooring, chucked away underlay and his pipework needed to be redone total cost to me £700. Heres his handy work View attachment 4232View attachment 4233yet he thinks I should pay him. The next 2 plumbers were excellent done what was asked and no complaints. If the people that leave these courses put themselves out as improvers rather than chancing themselves as plumbers then they might get employed...
 
Thanks for that Ivor, it seems there are too many people trying (as its already been mentioned) to get a quick fix of money in these current times. I wish there were others like yourself who would give us improvers as you say a chance/assistance. I fully appreciate experience is the key and it's certainly not gained in the workshops on courses. It puts a bad ill feeling towards those like myself who are genuinely trying to get fully qualified, make a go of their careers and succeed.

Luckily I have customers who, when I am in the position to, are willing to give a bit of their time to help me through to get my nvq2. That's the start to been able to then start looking for an employer to take on an improver/plumbers mate to progress with the experience part. Then some years later and the nvq3 plus hopefully gas I can possibly think of self employment or partnership.

I'm not on here trying to get people's backs up just trying to look for guidance and help from those already experienced wise qualified plumbers.
 
Hi
I would be very careful of train 4 trade skills...I have been on the course for over 18 months and have found the customer care woeful and unhelpful..The organisation of the college is shocking and the whole course does not fit in with a full time job at all...I feel cheated and don't want anybody else to get get shafted.
Please be aware of the saleman that comes to your door and lies to your face...they will claim colleges are close and will fit in around you,the course fits in with your work etc etc....All lies.
Whenever you call for ADMIN assistance you are told a different lie and told to call back.
Hope this saves just one family the 4k I regret paying in these times,
 
i have cancelled my direct debit with barclays,also have written to t4ts and barcleys stating i am cancelling the course and no longer wish to continue with it, i have stated various reasons for cancelling but t4ts keep sending back letters saying they can fast track my course and that the qualifications i recieve are not being phased out and that luckily i will get £30 per day for fuel and digs when i go on my practical sessions(wow i live 600 miles from nearest centre)......i am just continuing to write to barclays and t4ts stating i am cancelling my course , i also believe the 6129 is being phased out and replaced by a diploma that requires 3 years onsite experience, is this true or just hearsay as i could always use more ammo. i have also contacted summitskills as i believe t4ts have no right to use there logo or excerts from there website .summitskills are launching an investigation so we will see what happens.t4ts dont seem to care if circumstances change they just want their(my) money......well not anymore their not....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi pepsi
I hope you do get your money back and are able to cancel...I have already paid over 2k and keep hitting a blank wall regarding even getting to the workshop which luckily for me is only 90miles away (not local at all as described)....As for the phasing out of 6129 when I asked this question I was told it is and always will be valid????????...I feel cheated just like you!...I am going to call one last time today to see if I get any help...if they fail again I am seeking advice from a solicitor friend as how to proceed...I have started keeping a track of all the phone calls and lack of help...I suggest you do the same..I would think there are hundreds of us out there complaining about train4tradeskills....
 
hi rk660......i have not tried to phone t4ts as anything said is hearsay, i have always written to t4ts or barclays and sent the letters recorded delivery. luckily i only started with t4ts in feb this year so havent paid them that much,only £700, compared to what others have paid them .....i am refusing point blank to reinstate my direct debit ,also sending more letters stating i am no longer doing the course......if i get any money back it will be a bonus if not then lesson learnt(the hard way)
 
looks like the 6129 will be extended againt because the government wish to offer full time training, which aint possible with the new diploma, it will still go but may be replaced, watch this space as they say
 
I have been doing 6129 tech cert level 2 with the water regs etc. I agree with a lot of these posts, they are a shambles and the course certainly does not fit around you. I have been messed around no end when trying to book onto practical assessments. I guess I have been doing the course for the best part of 3 years now, having to fit the practical weeks around my holidays in my current job. I have completed the first 6 weeks passing all the C&G exams (about 13 in total needing 80% to pass) including water regs and energy efficency. These are legit exams. (I did check with C&G) However the let down part in my mind was the inconsistancy in the practical training and how lax they were in terms of quality. I am a bit of a perfectionist and found the practical side very easy as my current job is very hands on. There were some guys who were really struggling springing leaks everywhere and generally just not getting it, and I found myself trying to help them aswell. When it came to the assessments the assessors didn't really seem to fail anyone! Despite the fact some of the work was awful it was still getting signed off! I found this annoying as it makes a mockery of the whole system. Its quite worrying as surely the whole idea is to promote quality work and to make sure the person carrying out the work definately knows what he or she is doing. I am now waiting to get booked on my weeks 7-8 unvented and gas maintainance, but true to form they have now thrown a new H&S exam into the mix 300 pages of revision and an online test which I have failed twice. They can't say what the pass rate is or give any feed back its just a straight pass or fail. I am sure this is just another stalling tactic as they are over booked and under staffed. This has now messed up the holiday I saved to do the practical and means the course will drag on for longer. It is not fast track! I want to eventually do my NVQ2/3 and gas safe. I very much doubt it will be with T4TS. I just hope this all pays off eventually and that this isn't one big costly mistake! T4TS have so far delivered on the qualifications they said I would get, its just been at their pace not mine! Good luck to anyone else doing the course!
 
I've spoken to a couple of reps, the first was from "New Career Skills" (NCS) and that one shared a similar setup, but was priced at £6300 the C&G L2 in plumbing and heating, and £7300 to get through the part-p.

The second, was t4s and
From what I've learned, that was
L2 course = £3950 (£110pm)
L3 course = £5700 (monthly costs?)

Both acted as sales reps, which didn't affect me all that much, (I used to be in sales, so I saw it for what it was, regardless of how "desirable" their final result would be)
One major disappointment with NCS was however, when it came to pricing, the NCS rep wrote all his prices on a sheet of lined a4 paper, which looked very unprofessional.
It would have been better if he produced an official looking book with the price lists in it (Like T4s did).



One of my colleagues in the building trade has done a similar course and did spend about £7k, and he openly admitted that he wouldn't have been able to make ends meet after "graduating", where he was left out in the cold, so to speak with little knowledge of how to make the qualifications into more than a few fancy bits of paper, if it wasn't for his finding work in our small builders firm, he would struggle to make ends meet.

So, with that in mind, I am realistic in how such qualifications wouldn’t lead to instant results, and, thankfully, both reps made it clear that I wouldn't suddenly become the most employable person around, it would take work and graft to make something of myself, and they gave realistic levels of income, though I did notice both groups offered assistance in finding employment etc.

As with many, they spouted the hype of plumbers being in short supply etc (bucket of salt came to mind), and while I know my colleague has a few jobs lines up, that’s no guarantee I'll be able to manage the same


Okay, so it comes down to a simple question or three.
I have perused the forum dialogue and found many pro's and cons, and I fully realize the above courses won't make you a fully qualified, employable plumber, regardless of what the fancy booklets they gave me claims but it DOES give you written qualifications and a STEPPING STONE (or is that baby step?) towards becoming a fully qualified plumber.

From what I gather, it will only build you to a level where you could make a living as a self-employed plumber, or improve your skills base...

I already work as a general builder in a small builders and decorators firm, but most of what I learned is self-taught or learned through working with my peers, and as such, I don't have any formal qualifications.
Unfortunately, thanks to the current financial climate, I can't afford to stop working and go the route of college (however, I may consider evening courses, after what I've learned)

My goal, was to use a course like the one t4t offers to build on my skills and knowledge base, including put some written qualifications under my hat, I already know I could work with one of the firms people to gain the practical experience in things like bathroom and kitchen fitting, (though they would subcontract out for boiler work), but would spending that kind of money on an L2 or L3 course be worth my while?



p.s. thanks to whoever it was who mentioned you won't be able to do any practical work in "their workshops" until you've paid a minimum of £1300, that was something I didn't know.
G
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you really think about this, you could self teach yourself the plumbing. It is not hard to do the basics in plastic and there is no need to get any formal qualifications to do it. I'm not saying this is right or the proper way to do it but these courses will offer you as much practical learning as a week watching toms tips on you tube. You will never(very unlikely ever to) be employable after a course with anyone so you will be self employed anyway. Get the mask out and go for it lol.
Btw the plunbing and gas trades are just as bad as everything else. Sometimes what you know is maybe better :wink:
 

Similar plumbing topics

I
  • Locked
LOL clearly!! Dripbusters Ltd | Bathrooms...
2 3
Replies
64
Views
8K
T
  • Locked
nic not mandatory, but membership of one or...
Replies
6
Views
1K
kay-jay
K
  • Locked
Agree completely. I learn't loads, in a nice...
Replies
5
Views
11K
  • Locked
can i just ask what the difference is between...
Replies
14
Views
4K
J
  • Locked
They perpetuate the idea that there is a...
Replies
15
Views
18K
Back
Top