Valillant ecotec 418 condensing boiler - 6 months old not working!

[kitkat]

hi This is long complicated story, please bear with me. I had this boiler fitted 6 months ago. There have been problems with one radiator which needed bleeding almost everyday and made the occasional noise like breaking wind in the bath. Plumber could not fix. then 2 weeks ago the heating and water would not heat properly.. Radiators warm at top, cols at bottom Plumber said it's the heat exchanger. Vaillant engineer came & said there was a lot of iron oxide in the boiler water & the pump was noisy. Also the TF1 magna filter had not been fitted( we have paid for this). He recommended pump is cleaned out. Also said the temperature differential is too high so boiler keeps cutting out. Plumber admits he made a mistake in not fitting the filter. He drains the system says its not so bad but water around the pump was gloopy. Says water is dirtier now than when he fitted the boiler 6 months ago. Replaced pump ( 1 year old) & put in a chemical - Gold 500 I think. Makes no difference- still boiler cuts out, radiators upstairs got luke warm , then cold after 2 hours. Downstairs did not heat up. Plumber now thinks there is air in the system & a leak but can't find it. Now thinks leak is under concrete floor as the outlet pipes where we drain the system from (which are in the wall) are loose. He is coming back to flush out the system and fit the magna filter. He still thinks it could be the heat exchanger. I am at my wits end. I don't know what to believe anymore. Could it be a leak? Could all this have been caused because he did not fit the filter? Is there anything else that could be causing this? Thanks

 

[doitmyself]

I had this boiler fitted 6 months ago.

An 18kW boiler could be too large for your house. Who said you needed an 18kW boiler?

Use Whole House Boiler Size Calculator to find out what size boiler you really need.

The maximum output of the boiler can then be adjusted to meet your requirements.

Also said the temperature differential is too high so boiler keeps cutting out.

What speed is your pump set to? (It's the switch on the side marked 1, 2, 3 or l, ll, lll)

 

[chris watkins]

If air is getting into the system that quickly that a rad has to be bleed every day you have a leak !!! Water may or may not be leaking out but air is going in & the resulting corrosion will quickly destroy your now boiler. Do you have to top-up the water pressure in the heating system ? (is it a sealed system or open vented i.e. small tank in the loft?)
Not installing the filter in itself would not have directly lead to your problems.
The problems with a leaking (or pumping over/drawing down) heating system is not uncommon, I am surprised that your plumber is have so much of a problem sorting out where the problem lye's, fixing it, now that may be a bit more of a problem if it is a leak & under the screeded floor but it does need to be sorted.
Have you thought about getting a second opinion?

 

[kitkat]

hi the boiler is one most of the plumbers who quoted us recommended so I guess it is the right size. We do have a small tank in the loft but the plumber hasn't checked it yet, I am hoping he will do that when he returns. Can anyone explain other ways air can get in the system? Thanks

 

[doitmyself]

hi the boiler is one most of the plumbers who quoted us recommended so I guess it is the right size.

Unfortunately that's usually a bad guess as plumbers are notorious for over-sizing boilers. They want to play safe and don't consider the additional costs involved. Use the link I gave (it's not complicated) and you may get a surprise - unless you live in a 6 bed house.

 

[kitkat]

Hi doitmyself. calculation comes in at 19.2, not a 6 bed house but a 4 bed with no cavity wall insulation. Thanks for the link

 

[AWheating]

sounds like you have a number of issues, the system is old and was full of corrosion and not flushed out correctly when the new boiler was installed. It also sounds like you may have a leak or the system or it may be piped up badly, you also paid for a filter that was not fitted.

it also sounds like you need a better plumber.

 

[vern]

I bet he's dragged all the rubbish into the system from the tank when he drained the system to fit the boiler, the Vaillant heat exchanger is notorious for blocking up in these situations.....

feed and expansion could also be incorrectly piped......as Adam as said get a better engineer

 

[doitmyself]

calculation comes in at 19.2, not a 6 bed house but a 4 bed with no cavity wall insulation.

If possible, get cavity insulation installed. (Rerun the calculator but assume cavity insulation to see what the effect will be.)

You many be able to get help with the cost of insulation - try your gas provider first.

 

[zutman]

I always power flush every system before i fit a new boiler if i have not been looking after it, if i were you i would be asking for a power flush and when i say power flush its no more power than your normal heating pump just more volume of water and you can reverse the flow to move any poo in the rads, all heating guys will have a power flushing unit or should have ! So if you go 50/50 with him cost should be 130 quid ish hope this helps, dont worry about your boiler being over sized at this point just get it working

 

[AWheating]

I always power flush every system before i fit a new boiler if i have not been looking after it, if i were you i would be asking for a power flush and when i say power flush its no more power than your normal heating pump just more volume of water and you can reverse the flow to move any poo in the rads, all heating guys will have a power flushing unit or should have ! So if you go 50/50 with him cost should be 130 quid ish hope this helps, dont worry about your boiler being over sized at this point just get it working

i would not pay for half a powerflush, if its needed it should have been done by the installer. a year or two down the line maybe, but not six months. If i was going to pay anything towards a powerflush id get it done by a better plumber tbh.

 

[zutman]

i would not pay for half a powerflush, if its needed it should have been done by the installer. a year or two down the line maybe, but not six months. If i was going to pay anything towards a powerflush id get it done by a better plumber tbh.

Ok i agree sorry only been in six months your installer should sort it, get him to power flush it, this should take hime 4 to 5 hours and 20 quid in chemicals cant see him saying no, you could get hime to do a ph test on a water sample and see what he does. Power flushing will be come normal practice soon, lets hope so eh, your boiler and heat exchanger will last longer with nice clean water, fact

 

[kitkat]

Thanks. He is meant to come back today to power flush( I am not paying for anything he does).My husband supervised the original job & can't remember him doing it first time round. That was something else we had paid him to do. ATM I am reluctant to get in another plumber as it will cost me too much & I don't have the money. Does anyone know what my consumer rights are? Can I sue him? Thanks

 

[kitkat]

If possible, get cavity insulation installed. (Rerun the calculator but assume cavity insulation to see what the effect will be.)

You many be able to get help with the cost of insulation - try your gas provider first.

Hi we had someone from a government funded scheme look at this last year but as our house has tile cladding on the outside walls they weren't able to do it

 

[kitkat]

A quick update. Plumber has not turned up, Husband has had a big row with him & plumber says we have threatened to take him to gas safe, which we haven't but it gave me an idea. Checked gas safe register & he is no longer registered. Now what do I do?

 

[stoker122]

You would need to find out when the registration lapsed, most guys re-register in March.
If it was before that it is an illegal installation.
I would have a chat with citizens advice if he won't come back and put it right.

 

[bert large]

I doubt gas Safe would be interested to be honest. From what I have read none of the issues you have with the system are gas related.

Re: The possible oversizing of the boiler, all Vaillant boilers can be de-rated electronically.

 

[buckley plumb]

it could be piped wrong causing the pump to draw air in have you any pictures - also these boilers are very sensitive to flow and rtn temps they need an auto bypass to keep a min flow through boiler .

 

[stoker122]

I doubt gas Safe would be interested to be honest. From what I have read none of the issues you have with the system are gas related.

Re: The possible oversizing of the boiler, all Vaillant boilers can be de-rated electronically.

If it was installed by someone claiming to be registered, they should be interested.

 

[kitkat]

Hi Thanks for the advice. System has been just been flushed. One leaking radiator found. Boiler now on, firing occasionally, temp between 57-67. Rads luke warm not hot, even though room stat is on max. Will double check the registration with gas safe next week when I can ring them- not sure the internet is uptodate. He is coming back next week to see if the system is clear & won't fit the filter till it is. Will see if hot water has heated later. All I want is a nice warm house and hot bath! Cheers & thanks

 

[bert large]

It does sound as if the boiler may need to be de-rated & then see how it reacts. I have had the same thing on a Vaillant 428 which displayed the same symptoms although it had been working fine for 2 years.

 

[Richie_77]

Tell him ether come back and sort it out though the leak in the existing system really isn't his fault or your sue.
Simple

 

[AWheating]

Hi Thanks for the advice. System has been just been flushed. One leaking radiator found. Boiler now on, firing occasionally, temp between 57-67. Rads luke warm not hot, even though room stat is on max. Will double check the registration with gas safe next week when I can ring them- not sure the internet is uptodate. He is coming back next week to see if the system is clear & won't fit the filter till it is. Will see if hot water has heated later. All I want is a nice warm house and hot bath! Cheers & thanks

why wont he fit the filter? its designed to remove sludge so its pointless fitting it after dirty water has been circulated around the system/boiler and then cleaned out. It would give you the best indication that the flush has worked if it was fitted and it was clean when checked.

was it a power flush? ie. used a big pump/machine, flushed each rad on its own, took most of a day?

 

[happyflyer]

It beats me why anyone would want to buy anything made in France, wine, cheese, cars and least of all boilers, have you even wondered what they buy from us, Worcester Bosch, me thinks not:54:

 

[happyflyer]

Kitcat where do you live, surely someone on the site must be near you, it might be something simple, not sure about over size boiler most new boilers have a hell of a turn down ratio, is the system pumping over, you need someone to take a fresh look at it all this guesswork will send you into a spiral dive.