What trade should get paid more ?

[Murdoch]

Back to the OP ......... how long are your "golden handcuffs" lasting for?

 

[JTplumbingservices]

Back to the OP ... how long are your "golden handcuffs" lasting for?

Still got 2 and a half years

 

[Aire]

Similar situation to me mate. My company paid for my gas. Signed a 3 year contract, 1 year to go in April.

The fact that your boss paid for your gas is no reason to not pay you accordingly, but just because you have your gas quals, doesn't entitle you to more money either.

It depends on the type of company you work for and what profit your bringing the firm compared to the joiner your comparing your wages too.

To be honest I've just had a similar argument with my boss regarding wages and to be fair, he has listened, given me a new role, more money, and a review in 6 months to see if I warrant another rise. The threat of me going self employed seemed to work

 

[JTplumbingservices]

Similar situation to me mate. My company paid for my gas. Signed a 3 year contract, 1 year to go in April.

The fact that your boss paid for your gas is no reason to not pay you accordingly, but just because you have your gas quals, doesn't entitle you to more money either.

It depends on the type of company you work for and what profit your bringing the firm compared to the joiner your comparing your wages too.

To be honest I've just had a similar argument with my boss regarding wages and to be fair, he has listened, given me a new role, more money, and a review in 6 months to see if I warrant another rise. The threat of me going self employed seemed to work

We’re doing probably 3 kitchens a week on average all of which have to be fully repiped and the existing gas cooker pipe moved or one put in if there isn’t one, and each of these jobs gets a full new bathroom suite and repipe so he defo needs plumbers, but his argument is he can replace a plumber much easier than a joiner somehow so they get a “premium”. I asked for a raise and he said he couldn’t match what I asked for but offered me just above the half way mark between what I was on and what I wanted, I txt him again today though saying actually I want more and he replied saying ok and he will see me next week

 

[Aire]

Stick to your guns mate. Keep pushing until he says no. He may say to you I can replace you easily, it doesn't mean he believes it. Every boss in the world will have an excuse why he can't give someone a pay rise. I take it you are on the books? Out of curiosity, where are you based and what is he paying you compared to what you want, and what are the joiners on? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

 

[JTplumbingservices]

Stick to your guns mate. Keep pushing until he says no. He may say to you I can replace you easily, it doesn't mean he believes it. Every boss in the world will have an excuse why he can't give someone a pay rise. I take it you are on the books? Out of curiosity, where are you based and what is he paying you compared to what you want, and what are the joiners on? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Aye on the books in Scotland.
What I told him I wanted equated to £37.50 a week clear.
He offered me £20 so an extra £80 a month then I txt him today saying I want £100 a month so only £5 more a week than what he offered and it looks like he’s agreed to it.
Don’t know exactly what the joiner is on but I know it’s there or there abouts to what I’ll be on now.
The wages aren’t the best but it’s only 37.5hrs and get a van with diesel paid.

 

[Steve weightman]

Gas and plumbing is a far more risky trade it has to spot on or the consequences can be bad as for fitting a worktop etc what's the worst that can happen

 

[Chuck]

...as for fitting a worktop etc what's the worst that can happen

Accidentally drill through the gas pipe. Light up a cigarette while thinking about what to do next...

 

[Tim S]

Don't want to sound harsh but if I was on the cards, only working 37.5 hours a week, being paid for holidays & bank holidays, getting sick pay and pension benefits, had my gas paid for, was getting transport and fuel and had just negotiated another £1200 a year pay rise I wouldn't be too bothered about how much the joiner was getting paid!!.
If you think your hard done by try going self employed, buy/lease a van, pay for your own insurances and fuel, pay for your own gas/G3/water regs and other training/qualifications, sort your own tax (and vat), only get statutory sick pay if your ill, don't earn anything if you take a holiday, find your own work, spend your weekends and evenings preparing quotes, source your own materials, negotiate with merchants/suppliers, buy all your own tools and just hope the work keeps coming and you can make a profit, or at least break even!.
Hope this makes you feel a little happier !

 

[JTplumbingservices]

Don't want to sound harsh but if I was on the cards, only working 37.5 hours a week, being paid for holidays & bank holidays, getting sick pay and pension benefits, had my gas paid for, was getting transport and fuel and had just negotiated another £1200 a year pay rise I wouldn't be too bothered about how much the joiner was getting paid!!.
If you think your hard done by try going self employed, buy/lease a van, pay for your own insurances and fuel, pay for your own gas/G3/water regs and other training/qualifications, sort your own tax (and vat), only get statutory sick pay if your ill, don't earn anything if you take a holiday, find your own work, spend your weekends and evenings preparing quotes, source your own materials, negotiate with merchants/suppliers, buy all your own tools and just hope the work keeps coming and you can make a profit, or at least break even!.
Hope this makes you feel a little happier !

Sounds like you should go back on the books mate

 

[rpm]

You lost me with doing 3 kitchens and every job gets a new bathroom. Also think I can see the point about the good joiner being harder to replace tbh.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sounds like you should go back on the books mate

Most new first and second year se do or go sub to bg doing installs etc

Or fail and go bust

 

[JTplumbingservices]

We renew the kitchen and bathroom

You lost me with doing 3 kitchens and every job gets a new bathroom. Also think I can see the point about the good joiner being harder to replace tbh.

we renew the kitchen and bathroom

 

[Millsy 82]

Thing to look at is if there main work is kitchens etc a decent kitchen fitter is worth their weight in gold.

If you look at customers (especially round me) they would think nothing of spending 15k on a kitchen but would pass out if you want to charge them £60 for a boiler service and if you want to charge them 2k for a boiler swap they look at you like you just took a dump on their carpet and rubbed it in with their rampant rabbit.

I'm not saying it's right it is unfortunately supply and demand and like it or not decent plumbers are easier to find than decent kitchen fitters. were not talking carpenters now as I could get you a dozen carpenters and maybe 1 would do a job worth 10+k

 

[Millsy 82]

Also if your good at your job chances are you will get someone who will buy you out of your contract and then you sign up again for them or if possible pay for it yourself and be free.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Thing to look at is if there main work is kitchens etc a decent kitchen fitter is worth their weight in gold.

If you look at customers (especially round me) they would think nothing of spending 15k on a kitchen but would pass out if you want to charge them £60 for a boiler service and if you want to charge them 2k for a boiler swap they look at you like you just took a dump on their carpet and rubbed it in with their rampant rabbit.

I'm not saying it's right it is unfortunately supply and demand and like it or not decent plumbers are easier to find than decent kitchen fitters. were not talking carpenters now as I could get you a dozen carpenters and maybe 1 would do a job worth 10+k

Having a new boiler on the wall doesnt give bragging rights to friends or neighbours.New kitchens , bathrooms cars etc do. Personally think that the boiler industry is falling on its feet . Muppets doing them for a grand , manufacturers long warranties and endless finance. Give me 5 ball valves to change in a day and would earn same money here .

 

[Welder]

... Give me 5 ball valves to change in a day and would earn same money here ...

I've been saying this for years.

What few trades people consider is that for a job over a certain size/price customers mostly get quotes. This means there is always some form of race to the bottom to keep 'winning'.

With smaller jobs, customers simply cannot f8nd anyone who can be ar5ed to turn up so they simply pay up when they find someone willing. It also means the more willing plumber becomes 'my' plumber.

In general, you DEF earn more per hour doing small jobs than big ones. £180 to 300 per hour is best Ive earned for tap jobs.

 

[Millsy 82]

I'm with you both on that. I may not make 180-300 per hour but I can easily clear what I am able to charge for a days work in a morning. Leaves plenty of time for surfing.

It also gets you the bigger jobs as you said you become my plumber so as long as your not hitting with a massive bill for an install they will use you.

I also find you get less idiot customers as well for some reason.

 

[oz-plumber]

Couple of points:

This guys boss is making money out of him.

So anyone self employed, who is not charging at least the rates they would charge if they sent an employee to do the works, should have a major rethink about their charge out rates.
This guy is getting paid with all the benefits + van and diesel.
Do you think his boss is giving that away for free?

Secondly: Big jobs v small jobs
Everything is beneficial and profitable if priced correctly.
Larger jobs need more allowances for everything. Labour & materials.

Start pricing jobs like you have employees doing the work for you. Start realising that you have to make profits on top of what you pay your employees including all the add ons, holidays, sick days and so on.

If you work for yourself and only charge what you would make as an employee, you may as well be empolyed by someone who is going to make money out of you

 

[Millsy 82]

Couple of points:

This guys boss is making money out of him.

So anyone self employed, who is not charging at least the rates they would charge if they sent an employee to do the works, should have a major rethink about their charge out rates.
This guy is getting paid with all the benefits + van and diesel.
Do you think his boss is giving that away for free?

Secondly: Big jobs v small jobs
Everything is beneficial and profitable if priced correctly.
Larger jobs need more allowances for everything. Labour & materials.

Start pricing jobs like you have employees doing the work for you. Start realising that you have to make profits on top of what you pay your employees including all the add ons, holidays, sick days and so on.

If you work for yourself and only charge what you would make as an employee, you may as well be empolyed by someone who is going to make money out of you

You are right the problem is a lot of plumbers are like myself you can ask me to pipe a boiler, move a rad, do a bathroom, service a boiler or do repairs and I'm like yes not a problem.

Now ask me how to run a business, to work out how much my van costs to run each month etc etc and we're not taught that so it is a learning experience. I know my first year my price changed about 6-7 times until I worked out what worked and I made enough. So a lot of plumbers see that they are earning £160 a day from an install and think that's what they are getting however it turns out they are realistically earning £100 a day and better off on the books.

 

[Chuck]

Now ask me how to run a business, to work out how much my van costs to run each month etc etc and we're not taught that so it is a learning experience.

My local college has a basic 'Set up your own business' series of six evening classes for £60 (yep, £10 each).

I'm a big fan of such courses for a number of reasons.

 

[OffshoreGas]

At the end of the day your boss employs you to make himself profit.

It's pretty daft of him to actually tell you he can replace you etc. but it doesn't seem unreasonable that he expects to recoup the costs of putting you through your training. If it's cost him say £12K to train you he you need to cost him £4000/year less than an already qualified technician to break even or he may as well just have employed the experienced guy from day 1.

It also comes down to the type of work your undertaking, you have to cost him less than subbing the work out to a third party. If your installing kitchens, most of the pipework will be hidden and the gas work very basic. He can probably buy this in quite cheaply from a third party.

The way to make yourself more money is to make more money for him. Make yourself indispensable, see if you can being in extra work from existing customers on site etc, show him you can do the carpentry side of work too. Offer to train in other disciplines too.

Make his life easy and make him cash and he will try and look after you.