Y Plan Wiring Help, Please

[dontknowitall]

I might have to give this up as a lost cause and phone my sparky ... but I want to give it a bash.

I'm trying to wire the new Rayburn in but not sure (no idea if truth be told) which wire goes where!



(I've wired an S plan before and diagnosed and fixed an S plan problem before, so not totally ignorant ... I hope!)

The old rayburn was ripped out and 9 wires (in 3 cables) were removed in haste:

E
N
L
L1
N1
L2
N2
L3
L4

Another disadvantage for me is that the original wiring (which worked well) is not wired conventionally (e.g 3 is blank on one side and the mains is wired in to numbers 8 and 9. and there's another 2 connectors doing something with the pump and the mains supply)

Question 1:- Is it best to re-wire the wiring centre so it looks like a Honeywell plan?



There's a conventional room stat, cylinder stat, 3-way zone valve, pump and 3 x 3 core wires going from the airing cupboard to the rayburn. (A programmable room stat is on order.) The programmer is wired into the rayburn. There is no frost stat.

Instructions are:

Oven vent fan
a) N - Spare neutral terminal
b) SW/L Boiler - Switch live to operate boiler from room stat or cylinder stat via zone valves if fitted
c) HTG ON - To room stat/zone valve(s) etc (if fitted)
d) H/W OFF - Frost Stat
e) H/W ON - To cylinder stat/zone valve(s) etc (if fitted)
PN Neutral - Pump Supply (circulating pump must be connected directly to this supply)
PL Live - Pump Supply (circulating pump must be connected directly to this supply)
L LIVE - 3 amp permanent supply
N NEUTRAL - 3 amp permanent supply
E EARTH - 3 amp permanent supply

Additional instructions (my explanation of diagram):

N to zone valve
SWL to zone valve
CH ON
HW OFF to HWC 2 grey to zone valve
HW ON to HWC "C" 1 orange to zone valve, 2 grey to zone valve
PN
PL
L to ProgRoomStat - neutral to N and white to zone valve
N
E

Question 2:- I'm happy with the bottom 5 (mains to boiler and L/N from pump down to boiler). Which numbers (a to e above) do the others go on a conventional Y plan wiring system?

As ever, any help will be gratefully received!!

 

[tamz]

I'm sure you would get much more satisfaction if you did it yourself.
What model Rayburn do you have and i'll look it up or scan the wiring diagram and i'll keep you right.

 

[dontknowitall]

Woohoo!!! Many thanks Tamz for the assistance!!!

http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/Prodin/Rayburn%20current%20products/Rayburn%20440,460,480,499K%20OF/Rayburn%20440-499K%20OF%20Inst%2006-06%20EINS%20511566.pdf


Pages 13, 15 and 20.

I'm sure it can't be THAT difficult, but my brain's hurting!

 

[tamz]

You just have to look at it logically and regardless of how the junction box is wired or to whatever numbers the wires go to you just need to make sure the right wire connects to the right place.

You will need a multimeter if you don't know which wires at the rayburn come from where. To trace them disconnect the cable from the wiring centre (junction box) and twist the wires together on each cable. Test for continuity at the other end (L-N-E etc) and mark the cables.
You now know what is the end of each cable.

Anyway
You know the mains and pump wires but you only have 3 wires on one cable left.
Does the pump cable come directly from the pump to the rayburn or via the wiring centre?
If it comes via the wiring centre, you don't need the neutral or earth on that cable to be wired to the rayburn (it picks them up from the mains wires) so you can use the neutral on the pump cable for one of the programmer wires.

a) you don't need as there is a neutral at the wiring centre.
b) will connect to the orange of the valve (and the call of the cyl stat)
c) connects to the common of the room stat.
d) connects to the grey of the valve (and the sat of the cylinder stat)
e) goes to the common of the cylinder stat

I hope you can follow what i am saying as it is harder to write than do.

 

[dontknowitall]

That's magic, Tamz.


Many, many thanks. It was the start I need. I'll have another read tomorrow and try and make more sense of it.

 

[dontknowitall]

Update: I've had enough for one day.

Got my live, neutral and earth correct and cooker works.

Also pump works and water heats up.

No central heating at moment but I've only 4 wires left and no blown fuse when I move them around. I got myself well confused at end of day but rayburn is commissioned now and I'll tackle the wires again tomorrow or Monday.

Many thanks again, Tamz. I'll ask again if I can't work this out!!

 

[tamz]

You only need 4 wires now so trace them with a multimeter and bobs yer uncle.

 

[dontknowitall]

Was nearly there! Got the HW working but not the CH ... yet.

Had a couple of hours or so bashing it today but at least I now know exactly which wire is which of my cables. Ended up today by connecting them to the rayburn and have started fiddling at the wiring centre. Was tempted to start again but I feel I'm nearly there.

Clear head tomorrow and another (and hopefully final) attempt.

Many thanks again!

 

[stevetheplumber]

some good advice from tamz a lot of people including sparks, think you need all three cores back to the wiring center for the pump ,once youve used a meter to sort out which is which it often helps to mark one or both with tape each end ,also if your running back and forth from boiler to wiring center i often write down whats to where hope this helps
theres nothing dificult about following a wiring diagram but you do need to be methodical ,double check every connection after youve tightened it by giving it a little tug ive wasted a lot of time with connections you think are in but arent

 

[stevetheplumber]

one thing i noticed when i looked at the wiring diagram which is a bit misleading is it shows two orange wires from the motorised valves one to cyl stat one to wiring block in practice this will join up at the wiring center ie wire from terminal one to same terminal in wiring center as the orange from valve this then joins to the switch live on boiler

 

[dontknowitall]

Thank you, Steve. Just had one glass too many to take that in properly so I'll re-read tomorrow. Getting one of those flash new room stats tomorrow (seems to be yet another legal requirement now!) so I'll see how I get on.

Last week I phoned Aga and they told me to employ an electrician. If I struggle tomorrow I'll phone again and if I get the same response I'll remind them that I've just spent six grand and the least they can do is assist with a little wiring knowledge!!

Fingers crossed that I'll be able to work it out on my own though.

On the room stat subject, it does seem crazy that we have to fit these flash units that are much less environmentally friendly (batteries, expensive materials, etc) than the old ones. As for understanding how they work and that you can have goodness knows how many possible settings I do wonder how many people really do use them to the full potential.

From what I've read, there are six time zones for the heat settings, which will usually mean using more fuel and, therefore, chucking out more CO2. In the old days it was once in the morning, jumper during the day, then once in the evening, then thick pyjamas. Perhaps we're getting too soft these days?

 

[dontknowitall]

I've cracked it!!! Blooodee 'ell !!!!

3 fuses later and a 5 minute phone call to Honeywell (great company and great help, not for the first time!!)

Those of you who install a Rayburn 480k each week you'll know this but for those who don't, this might help:

Rayburn 480k using Honeywell zone valve, HWCyl stat and CM907 programmable room thermostat

LNE from mains to wiring centre (WC)
LNE from WC to LNE on Rayburn

Pump LN to WC to connect to Rayburn Pump L and Pump N
Pump earth to WC

HW ON at Rayburn to WC then to HWCyl Common
HW OFF at Rayburn to WC then to Grey on Zone Valve (with connection to HWCyl 2)

HTG ON on Rayburn - Not connected

SW/L on Rayburn to WC then to Orange on Zone Valve (with connection to HWCyl 1)

Room Thermostat
A to WC Live
B to WC then to White on Zone Valve


Once again, huge thank you Tamz and Steve. I feel invincible now but bet my next job will trip me up!





As for the help at Aga/Rayburn ...

Me: I need some help with wiring
Aga: Can't you follow a diagram?

Me: I can but I'm stuck with 4 wires
Aga: Are you sure you're a heating engineer?

Me: I've done S plans but just can't work out these 4 wires
Aga: I think you need an electrician

Me: I'm also the customer and have just spent £6,000 on this and feel a little help over 4 wires is not asking too much
Aga: Back tracking at first then back on to the offensive when I asked for the manager

Me: You need to be careful because if you say it's my training that's at fault then you need to know that I trained at Aga
Aga: Okay - I'll get that manager to phone you later.

Needless to say, not a squeak from the manager as yet.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if you can afford 6k for a cooker and boiler combination me and tmz will be sending invoices for the helplineresents2:

 

[tamz]

Told you it was easy :wink:

Well done.