Angry but need some advice

[Doodlebug]

I was asked to install a boiler & 9 rads by a customer which I completed this week.

I did the work whilst the customer was away on holiday so I wasn't able to contact them whilst they were away should there have been any issues, which in my mind there wasn't.

I rang them yesterday to arrange a handover because as far as I was aware they were back early hours Saturday morning but turned out it was Sunday. So when I rang they had just landed & he seemed rather annoyed that I'd rang him. So rather than bothering him further I just asked him to ring me at his earliest convenience.

He did so this morning & immediately began ranting on the phone, accusing me of doing a sub standard job. Complaining that the boiler was too low, pipe work was poor, rads undersized etc etc.

I had several meetings with him at the house before he went on holiday to make sure we were both understanding about the installation which we went through in some depth. When I went in to do the work once he had gone on holiday there was marks on the wall to indicate further where he wanted the boiler & rads, which I followed as best as possible where the joists & surroundings would allow.

I said that I would be out first thing Monday morning to go through the supposed 'catalogue of errors' & explain what was what.

I am pretty confident with the quality of my work (rads sized & hung on wall, pipe work ran under floor) & the boiler was installed by a guy who does my gas work who is GSR & works for a reputable local firm. He does boiler & system replacements on a regular basis & between a team of 3 can even do it in 1 day, all be it an early start & late finish. So I am more than happy with the quality of his work.

The customer says that he was thinking of calling it quits (£1000 deposit taken for my security) & have me rip out the boiler,pipe work & rads & have it put to his requirements which I am obviously more than reluctant to do as I feel there is little wrong with the install. Short of telling the guy to do one in the politest possible way I am unsure of what to offer should it come to the point of compensating him for anything that we may agree is not satisfactory.

Sorry to bother you all with this on a Sunday but any advice would be appreciated & sometimes it's easier to rant on here. Thanks all.

I would call round, apologise profusely and promise to put it all right, arrange a time and date, then on the day, call round with a few lads, take photo's of you perfect installation, then drain the whole system down and remove the boiler and all of the radiators. Advise that nothing will be put back without him paying you up front for what he owes you plus what he will owe you for time lost taking a perfect system out and putting back again. Good luck mate, let us know how you get on and if you need some muscle, give Croppie a call lol

 

[TomLane]

I've sent him an invoice for all outstanding materials etc as he refused for me to go round & discuss/rectify any issues he had!

The longer it goes on the more I feel he is trying to pull a fast one.

I'd arranged for an independent GSR installer to attend site on the Monday to certificate the boiler in his presence before this all kicked off! He told me he didn't want me or anyone to do with me anywhere net his house! So I informed him that he was using the boiler illegally & at his own risk! Despite him claiming that the installation was unsafe he had still been using the boiler! That to me just proves that he was an idiot!

We installed the boiler last week on Wednesday & had been running while we were there doing any finishing off right up until we left with no problems. When I spoke to him on Monday this week, he was getting a GSR installer out on Wednesday to check it was safe!!!

If he was that concerned, he should have immediately contacted the GSR or even his energy provider & explain the situation & they would have sent someone out o check it ASAP! As he didn't leads me to further think I was 100% right.

 

[Leo21]

There's no criticism here, but who connected/ turned the gas on to the boiler? It shouldn't have even been connected or left running surely. Anyway it's quite obvious this guy is trying it on. Good luck and take legal advise quickly

 

[TomLane]

There's no criticism here, but who connected/ turned the gas on to the boiler? It shouldn't have even been connected or left running surely. Anyway it's quite obvious this guy is trying it on. Good luck and take legal advise quickly

A GSR installer that does all of my gas work.

Agreed gas shouldn't have been left on but under the circumstances (cust returning late over the weekend) I didn't think they'd appreciate no hot water/heating so left the boiler isolated at the power. It wasn't left running, just ready to go once the power as flicked back on.

Have taken legal advice from a helpful website as the family solicitor is currently sunning himself in Australia for a few weeks! Once he's back & if there's no progress from the invoice then the legal wheels will be put in motion, so to speak!

 

[peteheat]

As I understand it under the Irish RGII rules if the RGI who installed or started installing a system is replaced by another RGI there are a few formal documents that must be submitted to RGII or the installation is suspect.

Any chance your Gas Safe (RGI) subby can contact the supplier explaining the job has been done cert delayed pending payment and now the customer appears to be using the system and expects to avoid paying by using another RGI to sign off on his work?

Might be possible that the gas supplier will disconnect unless the original installer signs off on the job? A slim chance I know but might be worth pursuing.

 

[stani]

Good luck with this one Tom by the sound of it you have been more than obliging and this bloke is just taking the proverbial, as said by others he's lucky you have patience he might have got someone else who wouldn't have been so understanding, keep us informed how you get on. stani.

 

[theanalyst]

I would without doubt have turned up there by now and ripped it all out.
If he wouldn't let me some people would have returned later and left him broken.
Simple as that! I admire your patience, what a complete cn*t the guy is.

 

[TomLane]

Just a quick update for anyone interested.

Received a letter from the guy who owes me the money for this job over the weekend.

He's basically offered a tiny fraction of the cost of the materials & 4 of the rads back & is trying to bully me in to accepting his offer by stating that I he is making a firm & final offer which he considers to be fair under the circumstances. He provided an exhaustive list of aesthetic snags (which I think a lot of them he did to make the whole job look worse) to which he added that he has had 4 GSR's round & have refused to take on the work due to my apparent poor condition of workmanship. He also has statements saying that the boiler is not suitable for the size of the property. Various other bull excuses & babble that I lost interest in reading.

I wanted to avoid taking this to small claims court for obvious reasons & also wanted to avoid having to make any confrontation with him as I could not guarantee at what point I would stop after the way he has been.

So, I am meeting with my solicitor on Wednesday morning, although he has already said that this sort of thing is not usually to be dealt with by a solicitor as their costs can outweigh the actual amount of monies that are trying to be recovered.

I have been very calm & passive about this so far, but I have reached the stage now where I am going to legally wipe the floor with the idiot, failing that, I will take physical action to recover the debt.

 

[Barry98]

24 carrot prat , do him in and have done

 

[Leo21]

What a cant. He's obviously trying to pull a fast one. I think your doing the right thing taking advise. Whatever you do don't incriminate yourself in any way. Sounds like this guy would take you to the cleaners. His names not Chamberlin by any chance, we had a guy do exactly this years ago. Good luck, and I really feel for ya bud.

 

[stani]

Tom, as the installation is in such apparent poor condition, perhaps now is the time to contact the gas provider that an unsafe situation is ongoing! If its that bad ( we know it won't be) they will turn off, if they don't then at least that is more empirical evidence for your case.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

please keep us updated, hope it works out for you

 

[Barry98]

4 gsr , not very good you way then are they lol

 

[markfxy]

Issue him one of these, A Statutory Demand for Payment (under section 268 of the insolvency Act 1986). The legal process used by government (HMRC) and debt recovery companies to collect debts.A statutory demand gives individuals, limited companies, LLP's, sole traders or partnerships up to 18 or 21 days to pay the debt. After that the statutory demand has runs its course and it can followed by a bankruptcy or winding up petition.
In the minds of a debtor or a debtor’s solicitor a statutory demand is the legal equivalent of a 'warning shot from a gun'. This is because the average debtor is so scared by 'what may follow' that they usually pay up. In fact statutory demands are so successful that in 99% of cases following the issue of a statutory demand a bankruptcy or winding up petition is Never issued.Download the form from .GOV website

 

[zeebeedee]

I'd seriously find it hard to refrain from booting his door in ripping it out and installing him to the wall with a nail gun!

 

[TomLane]

I'd seriously find it hard to refrain from booting his door in ripping it out and installing him to the wall with a nail gun!

Believe me, I'm finding it hard! I'm not usually this calm! Fight first, then fight some more, then ask questions is how I used to be!

Issue him one of these, A Statutory Demand for Payment (under section 268 of the insolvency Act 1986). The legal process used by government (HMRC) and debt recovery companies to collect debts.A statutory demand gives individuals, limited companies, LLP's, sole traders or partnerships up to 18 or 21 days to pay the debt. After that the statutory demand has runs its course and it can followed by a bankruptcy or winding up petition.
In the minds of a debtor or a debtor’s solicitor a statutory demand is the legal equivalent of a 'warning shot from a gun'. This is because the average debtor is so scared by 'what may follow' that they usually pay up. In fact statutory demands are so successful that in 99% of cases following the issue of a statutory demand a bankruptcy or winding up petition is Never issued.Download the form from .GOV website

I had considered passing it to a debt recovery agency, purely for the crap that they'd give him just to pay!

4 gsr , not very good you way then are they lol

I know alot of GSR's (decent ones) who would have just laughed down the phone at him as he moans like a pig & sounds like one, so these 4 probably got a good measure of him & did one before they got trapped by him!

Tom, as the installation is in such apparent poor condition, perhaps now is the time to contact the gas provider that an unsafe situation is ongoing! If its that bad ( we know it won't be) they will turn off, if they don't then at least that is more empirical evidence for your case.

I've considered ringing GS myself & telling them he's using the boiler without a ticket as he refused to let me have it done. He reckons he's made contact with them. But as far as I'm aware all they would say to him is to get a GSR engineer in ASAP to get it ticketed?!

 

[Nostrum]

Offer to pay a heating engineer friend of yours to make the system good, free of charge to him. If he agree's, get your mate to remove it all (with the intention of replacing with new of course) load it all in the van and drive off, forgetting to uncap the gas meter and after snapping the stop tap off just before taking a dump in the toilet without flushing.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

Offer to pay a heating engineer friend of yours to make the system good, free of charge to him. If he agree's, get your mate to remove it all (with the intention of replacing with new of course) load it all in the van and drive off, forgetting to uncap the gas meter and after snapping the stop tap off just before taking a dump in the toilet without flushing.

you must remember to flush before taking a dump

 

[mfgs]

He is clearly just trying to get out of paying. But why is the boiler not registered? Surely it was commissioned prior to being left in operation by your Gas Safe engineer? Sorry if it has already been answered on previous pages. If it was then you get get Gas Safe to do a free inspection for you, you cant if it aint registered as you will end up in trouble.

 

[tamz]

I had considered passing it to a debt recovery agency, purely for the crap that they'd give him just to pay!

There is usually some crew who wear genuine crombies near you who will buy the debt for xx in the £. Depends if you want to move with them or can live with the consequences.

 

[peteheat]

Tom,

Stay well away from this man only contact him through your Solicitor, no telephone calls to or from him and warn your brother and anyone else involved on the job to avoid that post code to the point of everyone keeping a daily diary.

Not only will he have your heating system and outstanding money he could have your Freedom.

Forget the macho bull this is business you are up against one of life's scum whatever you do don't try playing his game, the rules he plays by are completely different to anything decent people are used to, he knows you are wounded and is now trying to rub salt in looking for the reaction that will guarantee him a free heating system plus the chance for compensation.

Try to stay calm, hand the job over to the professionals and get on with your business and private life.

Scum like this can eat away at you from the inside without ever being physically near you.

 

[zeebeedee]

Tom,

Stay well away from this man only contact him through your Solicitor, no telephone calls to or from him and warn your brother and anyone else involved on the job to avoid that post code to the point of everyone keeping a daily diary.

Not only will he have your heating system and outstanding money he could have your Freedom.

Forget the macho bull this is business you are up against one of life's scum whatever you do don't try playing his game, the rules he plays by are completely different to anything decent people are used to, he knows you are wounded and is now trying to rub salt in looking for the reaction that will guarantee him a free heating system plus the chance for compensation.

Try to stay calm, hand the job over to the professionals and get on with your business and private life.

Scum like this can eat away at you from the inside without ever being physically near you.

Probably a better idea than Nailing him to the wall. Although mine would be more fun!