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DIY Gas Fitting
- Thread starter Dan
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- fitting gas engineer
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Bernie2
Yes its the same kind of thing Jason.
The problem is if you start restricting the sale of gas goods to only certain classes of people. Then the boiler manufacturers may restrict their goods and spares to their own people. And keep installation information to themselves. That would mean not only would the general public have to ask the manufactures to fit their boilers but also repair and service it. That would leave many in the industry without work, especially small companies and self employed guys as well as probably higher the prices for everyone.
The problem is if you start restricting the sale of gas goods to only certain classes of people. Then the boiler manufacturers may restrict their goods and spares to their own people. And keep installation information to themselves. That would mean not only would the general public have to ask the manufactures to fit their boilers but also repair and service it. That would leave many in the industry without work, especially small companies and self employed guys as well as probably higher the prices for everyone.
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david williams
the word compedent sums it up,in court no one wants to say what it means.because you dont hold a peice of paper to say you are competent does not mean you are not .as with most gas appliences if you can read the manufacturers instructions and comply with them you are not incompetant.i have never seen anyone who has done gas work in there own house who has been prosecuted even when the work was dangerous.in the end corgi do not take you to court the hsa do and then but rarely.
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flat pack
as quoted the girls don't need acs/gas safe hsa 3.1
quote 3.1
"no person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so"
the other quote about fees
why cant local state colleges run these acs like the city and guilds at normal rates
quote 3.1
"no person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so"
the other quote about fees
why cant local state colleges run these acs like the city and guilds at normal rates
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Plouasne
Lets play Devils advocate here, just assume that I am a competent person, have Qualigaz certificate for both gaz natural and GPL, I don't hold any UK qualifications, but under EU rules, I can do gas fitting in the UK, I forget the actual text and numbers now, but its like this if the examining body in the member state where I took and passed my examination has rules as stringent or more so than the member state I am working in, its two fingers to CORGI or who ever they are now, the only thing I might have to have done is have a sworn translation of my papers from the member states language in to English, its under the free movement of labour and goods
Qualigaz do exams in English and the last time I looked they were a lot cheaper the the UK's fees, the only thing with Qualigaz is they do not accept soft soldering, its got to be hard solder with a minimum of 8% silver content
Also when I was working in the UK, I had a direct order from a company director, to turn on the gas, because it was the old persons Christmas dinner in the church hall, even if the gauge dropped like a stone 5 inches water gauge, (i couldn't get it to go higher) in less than 30 seconds, between a rock and a hard place, I got the sack indirectly for refusing the order
Qualigaz, is a non profit making organisation, (under French law made in 1901)
a couple of websites for you to have a look at, the first one has side bars which can be clicked on for other pages, the second one shows all the courses they run and the costs, sorry that its all in French, but do not worry, because 40% of the English verbs are the same as French verbs, the pictures will speak a lot louder though
[DLMURL="http://www.qualigaz.com/qualigaz/certificats-conformite/reglementation-habitat.html"]Certificat de conformité Gaz - Qualigaz[/DLMURL]
[DLMURL]http://www.qualigaz.com/Cata_Qualigaz_09_BD.PDF[/DLMURL]
Qualigaz do exams in English and the last time I looked they were a lot cheaper the the UK's fees, the only thing with Qualigaz is they do not accept soft soldering, its got to be hard solder with a minimum of 8% silver content
Also when I was working in the UK, I had a direct order from a company director, to turn on the gas, because it was the old persons Christmas dinner in the church hall, even if the gauge dropped like a stone 5 inches water gauge, (i couldn't get it to go higher) in less than 30 seconds, between a rock and a hard place, I got the sack indirectly for refusing the order
Qualigaz, is a non profit making organisation, (under French law made in 1901)
a couple of websites for you to have a look at, the first one has side bars which can be clicked on for other pages, the second one shows all the courses they run and the costs, sorry that its all in French, but do not worry, because 40% of the English verbs are the same as French verbs, the pictures will speak a lot louder though
[DLMURL="http://www.qualigaz.com/qualigaz/certificats-conformite/reglementation-habitat.html"]Certificat de conformité Gaz - Qualigaz[/DLMURL]
[DLMURL]http://www.qualigaz.com/Cata_Qualigaz_09_BD.PDF[/DLMURL]
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ian4147
just to say my piece i am only just getting into plumbing and nothing to do with gas at all but someone i know moved the piping and meter in there house after they built there extension for the simple fact he had that little trust in work men and council workers (ex council property) because of shody work done in the past that he point blank refused to pay someone for crap work when he did a very good job himself he did all the plumbing and gas himself and 15 years on has had no problems at all after being an engineer in his younger days he was adament he would make a better job.to be honest i find that i do all work generally in my home(we dont have gas) but to be honest even if its something ive never tackled before i have more faith in my own work than some of the cowboys ive seen over the years (not plumbing but in general) and i am happy with my work which is more than can be said for the repairs i need to make to the jobs other people have done in recent months!!!
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Puddle
What a very cynical post 🙁
Few points, the good tradesmen far out number the bad, to say, you would do a better job ,doing something for the first time, than an experienced tradesman is very naïve and be it gas, electrics ect , how would your friend or you know a good job was done, as you would not know the regulations involved in the work being done or correct materials to use. Suggest the only reason your friend moved his own meter was cost related not tradesmen
And a lot of the stuff you are going around correcting is indeed done by customers themselves, although they my say different when they have to get a tradesman in to sort the mess out
Some people set themselves up for a fall,your friend was one,do'nt follow in hus foot steps
Few points, the good tradesmen far out number the bad, to say, you would do a better job ,doing something for the first time, than an experienced tradesman is very naïve and be it gas, electrics ect , how would your friend or you know a good job was done, as you would not know the regulations involved in the work being done or correct materials to use. Suggest the only reason your friend moved his own meter was cost related not tradesmen
And a lot of the stuff you are going around correcting is indeed done by customers themselves, although they my say different when they have to get a tradesman in to sort the mess out
Some people set themselves up for a fall,your friend was one,do'nt follow in hus foot steps
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ian4147
i am neither naive or cynical i am talking from experience after living in council property half my life and workin in and around peoples propertys i have seen first hand many times crap.this is not a reflection on all workers from this sector but i would like to see how many other people have lived in these propertys and had to cope with inferior works done by people who come round and couldnt give a toss and i know for a fact some not all of these jobs i could do with a damn site more care and much better results.p.s my friend was an engineer officer in merchant navy for ten years then an electrician before re training to become eventually a training captain for a major commercial airlane company he is also not naive and is a very clever person who if doing a job reads up on everthing and gets advice before he finds the best route regardless of cost,the cost has never really been the issue.why pay for something you feel you are competant to cope with.some people are very good with there hands,what are your views on people who build there own home with no experince etc then live in them the rest of there lifes are they also cynical or naive?
p.s i am not saying i would do this myself it was just a point of view.and also pointing out that after training i will be giving out a service of the highest quality not doing shoddy work and not attempting anything i think is out of my league.i just pulled out some old pipes stuffed behind my boiler from when it was replaced!!!.
my friend had a kitchen replaced and they stuck all her white goods and kitchen contents in the garden for a few weeks while they decided when would be best to come back and stick it all back in!!! she didnt even need a kitchen she was after a bathroom,see what i mean
p.s i am not saying i would do this myself it was just a point of view.and also pointing out that after training i will be giving out a service of the highest quality not doing shoddy work and not attempting anything i think is out of my league.i just pulled out some old pipes stuffed behind my boiler from when it was replaced!!!.
my friend had a kitchen replaced and they stuck all her white goods and kitchen contents in the garden for a few weeks while they decided when would be best to come back and stick it all back in!!! she didnt even need a kitchen she was after a bathroom,see what i mean
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Renewable M
Interesting thread here.
The 'remove head from back side' bit seems to be, people who 'CONSIDER THEMSELVES COMPETENT'
Er.... based on what? reading a few books, buying a spanner????? Or going through the training, assesment, apprenticeship etc etc etc that the many splendid gas installers have to.
I was on the tools for many years doing oil heating, before moving into training, and at home I'm on mains gas. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF COMPETENT TO DEAL WITH GAS, because its the bits you dont know that'll get you. I'd never raise a tool to it.
What are they thinking!
It looks easy to fly a plane, I suppose they'd give that a try also.
phew!
The 'remove head from back side' bit seems to be, people who 'CONSIDER THEMSELVES COMPETENT'
Er.... based on what? reading a few books, buying a spanner????? Or going through the training, assesment, apprenticeship etc etc etc that the many splendid gas installers have to.
I was on the tools for many years doing oil heating, before moving into training, and at home I'm on mains gas. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF COMPETENT TO DEAL WITH GAS, because its the bits you dont know that'll get you. I'd never raise a tool to it.
What are they thinking!
It looks easy to fly a plane, I suppose they'd give that a try also.
phew!
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Puddle
Good point Adrian,thats why most think the gas suppliers should put more into training via the governing bodies
I would say there should be sponsered centers were trainee gas fitters could go and carry out their portfollio projects
Or I, as a trained self employed plumber should be able to ring up a center and offer one or two days or a weeks site experiance when I have a certain types of work on
I have said before ,it is hard for a self employed person to commit to a full time training scheme,maybe there could be one trainee and he could move between five or six tradesmen
Like a agency,I could ring up and offer to take a tranee as and when I know I have gas work or doing gas safety inspections for the day ect
The above could work for all trades and provide better training,trainees may be with a tradesman less than now but would learn alot more
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ian4147
lol not been on for ages as been very busy at college etc.the person involved did fly planes if you had read my second post he also engineers model steam engines which i imagine have much higher pressures than your average gas supply.he recently removed his gas fire which was profesionally fitted and low and behold the pipe was almost cut through because it had been tightened up that much.
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fuzzy
you can sit your ACS if you have experience of working with a registered gasinstaller(RGI). Thats hard to get but so it should be, the prefered option by the industry and the people you will be doing work for is a apprenticeship, either for school leavers or adults. it makes no difference what your age is as long as you get the correct training and experience.
The ACS that you complain you cannot do without experience isnt a training course but a refresher for expereinced fitters. If your new you want a level2 then 3 gas fitting course.
Yes all RGI's will retire as will other trades and they like gas will require newentrants who are just as skilled as the previous tradesmen, nothing wrong with that.
oh and dave williams, its not about money, its about ensuring people working on such apliances have the skills to do so and policing it. as a cleint im sure you would want that
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CopperPot
Do most plumbers not go as far as gas qualifications? ive been looking into becoming a plumber and i have decided not to get gas qualified immediatley... for 1, i think working with gas cannot be learned well on a fast track and 2, its bloody expensive to train. Im going to get the lower certificates and work for a year or 2 before attempting the gas side of things..
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fuzzy
There are many plumbers who do not work on gas, they are after all 2 different trades! they only really merged when plumbers started fitting gas central heating. now the trades are linked but sperate. many plumbers only do the acs and cen1 to fit boilers. Leaving the other aspects to gas fitters
the route you suggest is the prefered option to the trade, get either your plumb quals, gian experience and then go for your acs OR train as a gas fitter and not a plumber.
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Bakiibak
Hi, guys anyone out there who is a whiz on explaining purging volumes U6 metric up to 28mm pipe......?? I will try and explain what is confusing me so bear with me...hear goes, I have a few questions got my exams due soon so really got to get this in my head (i know you will all understand what am goin through!!)
I know the amounts 0.01m3 0.35 ft3 etc but don't know how we get to these figures. I understand its 5 x the badge cap. and 4 x for purge and cap but how do we get to the figure 0.01 when the badge cap. is V = 2dm3 (G4) am I doing this right assuming 2dm3 /1000 = 0.002 then multiply by 5 to get 0.01 m3 therefore 4 x = 0.008 (0.01m3) is this correct?
Also not quite understanding how the imperial calc. work out in my notes:
5 x 0.071 = 0.355ft3 I understand that!! but for 4 x 0.071 = 0.284 ft3 is this correct??
in my notes I have 4 x 0.142 = 0.568ft3 which one is right my notes cap is suddenly 0.0142
regards dave
I know the amounts 0.01m3 0.35 ft3 etc but don't know how we get to these figures. I understand its 5 x the badge cap. and 4 x for purge and cap but how do we get to the figure 0.01 when the badge cap. is V = 2dm3 (G4) am I doing this right assuming 2dm3 /1000 = 0.002 then multiply by 5 to get 0.01 m3 therefore 4 x = 0.008 (0.01m3) is this correct?
Also not quite understanding how the imperial calc. work out in my notes:
5 x 0.071 = 0.355ft3 I understand that!! but for 4 x 0.071 = 0.284 ft3 is this correct??
in my notes I have 4 x 0.142 = 0.568ft3 which one is right my notes cap is suddenly 0.0142
regards dave
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plumber sydney
Yes even i support *********. Gas is very dangerous , you need to let it handle by the experts.
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http://www.getplumbing.com.au
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http://www.getplumbing.com.au
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Bernie2
Hmm!
Some old chestnuts bubbling away here!
Gas fitters where until about the 1970's regarded as part of Plumbing and still are. But they where thought of as semi skilled by some, simply because they could not usually do the full range of a Plumbers job. Whereas a Plumber was expected to be able to do the full range of a gas fitters job.
The reason they seem to be two separate trades now, is because of the old British Gas company. They moved into the domestic central heating market and demanded that their gas fitters start fitting central heating. It was a marketing ploy not a skills move that separated the two. On one site we where pretty "pally" with BG guys and some of the lads would go down to a neighbouring site in their dinner hour and help the BG gas fitters by telling them how to do the central heating. I must admit I suppose a few pints where part of the bargain.
Anybody looking into the history of BG will probably find the reasons why the domestic heating industry is like it is now. They virtually dominated the whole domestic heating market and dictated to it.
I suppose you could say its a bit like the ceiling fixer and the joiner. The joiner installed suspended ceilings but it became a market on its own so some joinery company's started to specialise in ceiling fixing. You could go on, a brickie and a plumber both learn drainage but its usually specialist drain layers who now do most of the work.
I have worked on site's where the company I was working for has been doing the plumbing and another the central heating, gone to another site where, we where doing the central heating and the other company the plumbing.
Its the same with roof work and flashings.
However the Plumber has to learn, drainage, central heating, gas fitting and possible basic electrical. In Scotland Plumbers wired the houses out as they protested when electricity first came out that the electricians where pinching their gas installation work.
Incidentally the original central heating engineers went to a property usually large properties, measured up and then went back to their factory and made the rads and pipes usually by casting them in iron.
That is why they are called engineers and not pipe fitters.
The Plumber also did the fitting of the rads and pipes, but not the engineering.
Now as I explained the gas fitter/plumber/central heating engineer all do it.
And we have not even mentioned glazing yet!!!
Lets be honest, its all about earning a crust and what you think you can do to earn one and interest of course.
All this inter trade war and perhaps qualification snobbery is just silly.
If you go on a course all you learn is what somebody else has found out. The British Standards change nearly every year because they find new things out all the time. The ACS is done every five years because technology changes. So I don't suppose anybody can say they know it all.
Some old chestnuts bubbling away here!
Gas fitters where until about the 1970's regarded as part of Plumbing and still are. But they where thought of as semi skilled by some, simply because they could not usually do the full range of a Plumbers job. Whereas a Plumber was expected to be able to do the full range of a gas fitters job.
The reason they seem to be two separate trades now, is because of the old British Gas company. They moved into the domestic central heating market and demanded that their gas fitters start fitting central heating. It was a marketing ploy not a skills move that separated the two. On one site we where pretty "pally" with BG guys and some of the lads would go down to a neighbouring site in their dinner hour and help the BG gas fitters by telling them how to do the central heating. I must admit I suppose a few pints where part of the bargain.
Anybody looking into the history of BG will probably find the reasons why the domestic heating industry is like it is now. They virtually dominated the whole domestic heating market and dictated to it.
I suppose you could say its a bit like the ceiling fixer and the joiner. The joiner installed suspended ceilings but it became a market on its own so some joinery company's started to specialise in ceiling fixing. You could go on, a brickie and a plumber both learn drainage but its usually specialist drain layers who now do most of the work.
I have worked on site's where the company I was working for has been doing the plumbing and another the central heating, gone to another site where, we where doing the central heating and the other company the plumbing.
Its the same with roof work and flashings.
However the Plumber has to learn, drainage, central heating, gas fitting and possible basic electrical. In Scotland Plumbers wired the houses out as they protested when electricity first came out that the electricians where pinching their gas installation work.
Incidentally the original central heating engineers went to a property usually large properties, measured up and then went back to their factory and made the rads and pipes usually by casting them in iron.
That is why they are called engineers and not pipe fitters.
The Plumber also did the fitting of the rads and pipes, but not the engineering.
Now as I explained the gas fitter/plumber/central heating engineer all do it.
And we have not even mentioned glazing yet!!!
Lets be honest, its all about earning a crust and what you think you can do to earn one and interest of course.
All this inter trade war and perhaps qualification snobbery is just silly.
If you go on a course all you learn is what somebody else has found out. The British Standards change nearly every year because they find new things out all the time. The ACS is done every five years because technology changes. So I don't suppose anybody can say they know it all.
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GPSNewcastle
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rumpo
iam new here as iam looking about retraining ,but i was was a plumber back in the sventies and rember what bernie says ,even as a apprentice i was throwing full heating systems in,inluding first fix gas ,including the boiler ,then a guy from bg would turn up ,bang the meter in and sign it off,read somewhere that now i carnt put the boiler in ,,is this true ?
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