DIY Gas Fitting

[Dan]

DIY Gas fitting is not recommending. This includes the installation of Gas appliances such as cookers and fires etc.

Always use a gas safe registered plumber for all your Gas plumbing requirements.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Gas fitting is part of Plumbing and always has been. Contrary to what people may say it is not a specialist trade at all. The gas fitters started doing domestic central heating not the other way around. The Plumber was installing central heating virtually soon after its invention and a supply of heating component parts where readily available on the market.

The term "central heating engineer" refers to the time when an engineer would have to measure up a job and then go back and cast the parts in iron at the foundry hence the "engineer" and not just heating fitter.

Obviously a Plumber could not make the parts, but shared the same technology and had a bit more specialised Plumbing technology as well. However when parts became freely available the Plumber started to do central heating usually biased more to the standardised parts for domestic heating market than the commercial/industrial both of which sides as well as domestic I have worked on with other Plumbers.

In modern times the "central heating engineer" is usually associated as being the person who does commercial/industrial and only a bit of domestic heating work, the rest of the domestic work is usually done by a Plumber or sometimes specialist heating only company's.

The confusion comes from BG wanting to expand into all kinds of new markets and don't forget their heating engineers fix washing machines and dishwashers as well. I suppose their gas fitters could be called multi skilled.

The reality is everybody is looking toward what ever they can do to earn a crust. The idea you can stick to just one specialist trade is now out dated. That is partly why it all needs opening up.

 

[fuzzy]

Hmm!

Gas fitting is part of Plumbing and always has been. Contrary to what people may say it is not a specialist trade at all. The gas fitters started doing domestic central heating not the other way around. The Plumber was installing central heating virtually soon after its invention and a supply of heating component parts where readily available on the market.

The term "central heating engineer" refers to the time when an engineer would have to measure up a job and then go back and cast the parts in iron at the foundry hence the "engineer" and not just heating fitter.

Obviously a Plumber could not make the parts, but shared the same technology and had a bit more specialised Plumbing technology as well. However when parts became freely available the Plumber started to do central heating usually biased more to the standardised parts for domestic heating market than the commercial/industrial both of which sides as well as domestic I have worked on with other Plumbers.

In modern times the "central heating engineer" is usually associated as being the person who does commercial/industrial and only a bit of domestic heating work, the rest of the domestic work is usually done by a Plumber or sometimes specialist heating only company's.

The confusion comes from BG wanting to expand into all kinds of new markets and don't forget their heating engineers fix washing machines and dishwashers as well. I suppose their gas fitters could be called multi skilled.

The reality is everybody is looking toward what ever they can do to earn a crust. The idea you can stick to just one specialist trade is now out dated. That is partly why it all needs opening up.

Hi bernie, i beg to differ my friend. BG did all the gas, plumbers did plumbing. When they opened up gas fitting to others they created acops as a safe measure. Now the trades are merged somewhat and it will never become a clear line between as it was particulalry because of boilers.
If they are the same trade why is there an NVQ in plumbing and one in gas?

 

[Reg Man]

I differ to: Gas is a different ball game. Technical stuff about flues, combustion , ventilation, Boiler controls ect: One thing I do agree with. Historically plumbing is a very highly skilled job. Unfortunatley the reference to plumbing has gone a little a stray. Plumber is Latin for Lead Worker. How many people calling them selves plumbers can do Lead Work? Both trades are due credit and some of our can diversify into both.

 

[Bernie2]

Ahh! Go on with yer!!

British Gas's job was to make gas and distribute it not fit appliances although they did that also. When the JIB grades first came out in the 70's, BG gas fitters where classed as semi skilled Trained Plumbers a grade below the usual Plumbers Advanced grade, because BG said their job was not as skilled as Plumbers even though both came under the same grading scheme. The BG guys protested like mad about that. So BG said to them, okay fit central heating like Plumbers do and we will give you the Advanced grade. The guys had a rough time until they learnt the ropes of how to do central heating some of my mates helped some of them out.

Also the specialist Plumbing company I worked for, had a Gas fitting division years ago and did sub contract work for BG, as well as all its Plumbers installing all the domestic gas in new builds and refurbs as well as going with the gas guys when there was no Plumbing.

BG was in fact a nationalised company that had formerly been many smaller private companies in point I worked for a company that put the first gas lighting in in Liverpool and that was a Building company with a Plumbing division.

 

[stevejordan]

work on your own home is illeagal unless you are competent
work in someone elses for no gain - competent but not corgi
work for gain - corgi

ITS ABOUT TIME ALL D.I.Y. OUTLETS AND SOME PLUMBING MERCHANTS - START ASKING FOR I.D. (GAS SAFE CARD)
YES I KNOW THIS MAY CAUSE HOME OWNERS SOME INCOVENIANCE ,AS SOME INSTALLERS ARE TO BUSY TO PICK UP, BUT THIS WOULD SURELY CUT OUT SOME OF THE COWBOYS (NOT ALL AS THE FAKE GAS SAFE CARDS ARE OUT THERE

competent =ACS qual[/QUOTE]

 

[Reg Man]

Competence has a deffinition: Someone who has relevant training, qualification and experience. This is usually something tested in court. The gas industry use ACS is proof of competence. This is relied upon because of the systems in place are overseen by UKAS for approved ACS centres carrying out the assessments. This makes it much easier in court, because most people who have not done ACS and stand in the dock, have not got a chance, why are they there in the first place? This could include DIY fitting. So if your a DIY person and you have not gone through ACS, then if the gas work goes badly wrong you will have big problems defending your actions in court.

 

[fuzzy]

Competence has a deffinition: Someone who has relevant training, qualification and experience. This is usually something tested in court. The gas industry use ACS is proof of competence. This is relied upon because of the systems in place are overseen by UKAS for approved ACS centres carrying out the assessments. This makes it much easier in court, because most people who have not done ACS and stand in the dock, have not got a chance, why are they there in the first place? This could include DIY fitting. So if your a DIY person and you have not gone through ACS, then if the gas work goes badly wrong you will have big problems defending your actions in court.

agreed, only exception would be somebody retired who had been a gas engineer all their life and the acs just run out, they may have a claim?

 

[Reg Man]

May be? Case in Norwich recently, involving retired plumber with no registration and no ACS, was prosecuted.

 

[fuzzy]

May be? Case in Norwich recently, involving retired plumber with no registration and no ACS, was prosecuted.

really! was he recently acs qualified? very experienced? i know a X BG trainer who helped write the acs, he now retired and acs ran out, id still trust him before many newly qualified, id say he was competent

 

[Reg Man]

No He was a plumber all his life, but did not hold ACS. ("I've been doing this all my life why should I have some jumped up regulators tell me how to do my job") Typical attitude of someone who thinks, they know it all and can't be taught anything, or someone who has been crap at the job all there life and is frigthened of being exposed?

 

[metaldust9]

dont think ive done anything as hard as this acs, stuff i no and have been doing ages just goes out my head and am durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rabbit in the headlights so why should ilegal people get away with it

 

[fuzzy]

No He was a plumber all his life, but did not hold ACS. ("I've been doing this all my life why should I have some jumped up regulators tell me how to do my job") Typical attitude of someone who thinks, they know it all and can't be taught anything, or someone who has been crap at the job all there life and is frigthened of being exposed?

oh i see, completely different to my example then, no sympathy. some knowledge is often more dangerous than no knowledge

 

[Bernie2]

Interestingly we do not seem to know how many gas related accidents there were before compulsory registration came out.

Has safety improved or become worse due to technical advances making boilers overly complicated and seemingly PCB reliant?

 

[Reg Man]

My personal view is: There were many incidents prior to mandatory gas registration. Then we had de-regulation of British gas which opened up the market to alot more people who were not necessarily gas trained. Additionaly we had problems with little investment into new apprenticeships and training. On the plus side; open flued appliances are becoming a thing of the past and leaps forward in technology of appliances has certainly improved the situation. We have also been subject to proof of competance through ACS, which could only have been a good thing. So on balance the industry is in a much safer place than it could have been. You will notice that not all incidents are caused by installers bad work and many of those which did, are the not so good people, who have ignored the requirements or, had no idear what they were surposed to do. Therefore reinforcing the need for some regulation body to oversee the industry. Unfortunately the new scheme seems more interested in just running a register, rather than leading the industry and it pushes everything else back to various industry bodies to sort out. In my view not the most effective way of moving forward because there are to many bodies with different agenda's, so how are resonable decisions ever going to be made.

 

[Bernie2]

I am still unsure. It seems to me that in the past gas appliances were basically very simple affairs and very easy to maintain. But with the call for more fuel efficiencies it seems complication after complication has been added to the point many boilers now seem to require a CPU and various PCB boards fitted to even get them to go. Some also require expensive and complicated diagnostic equipment to service them.

The problem is, this all makes boilers more difficult for service engineers to really understand in detail. Doesn't this mean the likelihood of more accidents is increased? Also the use of PCB seems to be one in which a new system board comes out every five minutes depending if it can do the job cheaper than the one before. Problem is are they reliable?

I am not a dinosaur wanting got go back to the dark ages, but I do question whether complication if it is not needed makes for safer boilers.

 

[Mick Helpful]

Quite simply if you are competent you can work on your own gas installation. Read regulation 3:

[FONT=&quot]3.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.[/FONT]

So if you are competent you can do your own work if you are not employed. If you are employed you or you company have to belong to the class of persons refferred to, i.e. are GasSafe registered. Note that if you work for a Company who is registered you don't have to be registered, merely competent. In other words exactly the same as a competent DIYer!!

With regard Bernie2's comment these PCB's are exorbitantly priced and are non-serviceable. Why worry the punter pays! You can buy 4 digital setop boxes for the price of one of them. Some of the boards are reliable but others aren't and with no circuit data fault finding at component level is virtually impossible. The curent regulatory system and training means that most plumbers are merely panel jockeys. Ask GasSafe for a plumber who can fault find pcb's with a duff buck regulator, triac or thyristor costing at the most £1.50 and you'll draw a blank

 

[Reg Man]

Competence? will normaly only be tested in court.

If you have passed ACS, you've prooved competance.

 

[REDSAW]

you cant beat an old bi-plane for reliability.lol.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

you in your own world again red?

 

[fuzzy]

Competence? will normaly only be tested in court.

If you have passed ACS, you've prooved competance.

you can be done for having but not applying competence, so i read in gas engineer mag a couple of months ago!

there are other but more difficult ways of proving competence

 

[Reg Man]

you can be done for having but not applying competence, so i read in gas engineer mag a couple of months ago!

there are other but more difficult ways of proving competence

Your right there: Know loads of people that have done ACS and don't carry this forward to their day to day working practice. This is worse than not knowing what your doing?

 

[adam84]

gas engineers should prove they can do their job and have the knowlege to do it, but the gas industry and in particular the retail side need to step up and take responsibility buy only selling gas critical parts to registered engineers, i was horrified in b+q a couple of weeks ago when i saw a DIY gas fire installation kit consisting of a small coil of 8mm a roll of gas PTFE and a cheap and nasty junior hacksaw, so how as gas engineers are we supposed to enforce safe working practice when companys like b+q sell kits like that to the general public and any other weekend wonder.

 

[fuzzy]

thats terrible, but not illegal unfortunately, you can fit your own gas stuff if your competent

 

[pobsdad]

I'm Gas Safe registered,but might only do a service every 2 or 3 months.After 6 pints at lunch time.Who's to know?Nothings gone bang yet!

 

[pobsdad]

DIY stores justify selling gas fittings by saying that genuine tradespeople buy from them.As opposed to plumbers merchants.