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DIY Gas Fitting
- Thread starter Dan
- Start date
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- Tags
- fitting gas engineer
F
fuzzy
In regards to competency with gas an individual is only competent if they have been deemed competent by a governing body
Gas Installations in a individuals home if carried out by an unqualified homeowner are still classed as illegal installations but these would only come to light if there was a unsafe situation or incident.
not if competent
P
PlumbBobBob
Have you considered hanging the boiler your self,
Plumbing in the water bits (hot, cold, flow & return, condensate run, PRV tube) and having opened up the hole for the flue, get in a local RGI to finish it off at a reasonable price?
Tim
all the jobs you mention are jobs to be completed legally only by a gas safe engineer
and i as an rgi wouldn't touch it with a barge pole even if i was skint
T
the baker
all the jobs you mention are jobs to be completed legally only by a gas safe engineer
Some folks may disagree with you.
Tim
T
the baker
and i as an rgi wouldn't touch it with a barge pole even if i was skint
More work for other people then.
Tim
i dont mind at all 🙂More work for other people then.
Tim
T
the baker
The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
B
Bernie2
The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
Yes its true. When we first go to service or repair an already installed gas installation or appliance we have no idea who installed it or how it was installed. Our job is to ensure it is installed properly. So it makes no sense not to service or certify a system.
P
Puddle
The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
Can see what you are saying and agree it could be argued you are better knowing the history of an installation be it good or bad
Others would say if you are doing your job properly,it does not matter ,as you will find any problems anyway
I just wanted to make the point ,that,we should indeed presume an appliance has been installed by a competent person and correctly,this is why no gas inspection is required on any appliance installed until appliance is 1 year old because it is assumed it has been installed correctly by the powers that be.
As for obligation,I am only obliged to carry out the works I wish
Learn't that years ago,when corgi insisted I should issue a gsr without labeling the boiler min ''at risk'',when sited in the shower area over a bath,they said,electrical side maybe a problem,gas is ok !Told customer the same,she screamed at me as I walked off down the path,giving her no paperwork
imho
B
Bernie2
Yes, I would agree with that. I have had some real problems with that, when working as an operative for large housing associations on their housing stock. They want to keep the tenant happy and they do not want to spend money they feel they may not have too. The pressure on both you as the operative and the company you work for, can be tremendous to pass work you may not feel comfortable with passing. In your scenario even CORGI would not back you, yet who would take the blame if it went wrong? Please God it never did of course. I often think the protection of employed gas service operatives is nowhere near good enough to stop the many pressures excerted on them from both companies and clients.
think so, unless they have moved it 🙂The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
F
fuzzy
The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.
We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.
So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.
I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.
Tim
PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?
or better still get the work done by a competent person or rgi
Just read all 12 pages and am still not sure what is competent and what isn't ..lol..I read somewhere a few years ago that a guy down south of 25 years BG experience was working in the industry and refused to join CORGI. Went on to say that he challenged CORGI to take him to court and prove he was incompetent, advice given to him was that unless he'd caused an accident or they could prove his work was not up to standard they would lose and so they just ignored him and he carried on regardless. Anyone else remember this and know the outcome ????
F
fuzzy
Just read all 12 pages and am still not sure what is competent and what isn't ..lol..I read somewhere a few years ago that a guy down south of 25 years BG experience was working in the industry and refused to join CORGI. Went on to say that he challenged CORGI to take him to court and prove he was incompetent, advice given to him was that unless he'd caused an accident or they could prove his work was not up to standard they would lose and so they just ignored him and he carried on regardless. Anyone else remember this and know the outcome ????
but he was still breaking the law if he was working for gain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but he was still breaking the law if he was working for gain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???
F
fuzzy
I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???
im not suggesting he is or is not competent, but it is quite clear, to work for gain ie.employed or self employed you not only need to be competent but registered. If he isnt registered he aint legal
B
Bernie2
Its interesting, but when you think about it, many registered gas fitters with qualifications have probably made mistakes as well as those without. What really matters is the quality of the work produced not if the person who did it is qualified or not. The presumptions is that if you are qualified you should be competent of turning out good work. So qualification is based upon presumption not proven ability. But companies get paid for their work not their qualification, its probably why a well qualified 3 month course person has problems getting employment with companies. The companies assume they have no experience of turning out good work.
The thing is you can't really know if they can turn out good work, until you see some of it. So what if you went to a site and saw good work from a none qualified person and good work from a qualified person. Which one would you pass if you did not know which engineer was qualified and which was not?
Obviously you would have to pass both.
The thing is you can't really know if they can turn out good work, until you see some of it. So what if you went to a site and saw good work from a none qualified person and good work from a qualified person. Which one would you pass if you did not know which engineer was qualified and which was not?
Obviously you would have to pass both.
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F
fuzzy
I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???
have you warned him?
F
fuzzy
Its interesting, but when you think about it, many registered gas fitters with qualifications have probably made mistakes as well as those without. What really matters is the quality of the work produced not if the person who did it is qualified or not. The presumptions is that if you are qualified you should be competent of turning out good work. So qualification is based upon presumption not proven ability. But companies get paid for their work not their qualification, its probably why a well qualified 3 month course person has problems getting employment with companies. The companies assume they have no experience of turning out good work.
The thing is you can't really know if they can turn out good work, until you see some of it. So what if you went to a site and saw good work from a none qualified person and good work from a qualified person. Which one would you pass if you did not know which engineer was qualified and which was not?
Obviously you would have to pass both.
you wouldnt be checking a non qualified persons work as they are not registered so wouldnt know!
the regs say you cannot be employed (including self) if you are not registered with gas safe. so regardless of the competence thing you MUST be registered
M
mountainman
you wouldnt be checking a non qualified persons work as they are not registered so wouldnt know!
the regs say you cannot be employed (including self) if you are not registered with gas safe. so regardless of the competence thing you MUST be registered
Correct!
End of discussion IMO.
B
Bernie2
How can you know when you service a gas system who put it in? How do you know a none ACS apprentice never installed it under supervision?
Many systems over 20 years old where installed by none registered people. It is the standard of work that matter's not qualification. It is true if your paid to do a job you have to be Gas Safe registered but DIYers can still do it in their own home. If you never knew who installed the system you would never know who had done it.
Suppose a gas fitter with 30 years experience installed a system but their registration had lapsed and a three month registered gas fitter installed a system would you fail the 30 year persons system if the systems were both of the same standard?
So you would look to see if it complied with the regulations and pass it, if you never, you would have to declare every system you met ID and turn it off, because you did not know if the person who installed it was ACS or not.
Try that with a big landlord and you will probably soon find yourself out of work. The operative word is "Safe" you are employed to decide whether it is "Safe" or not, not who is qualified or not.
Why do we suppose both CORGI and GAS SAFE want to see your work even after registration and proof of qualification?
A Gas escape is not concerned with regulations but good work makes a system safer. So look at the quality not the qualification.
Many systems over 20 years old where installed by none registered people. It is the standard of work that matter's not qualification. It is true if your paid to do a job you have to be Gas Safe registered but DIYers can still do it in their own home. If you never knew who installed the system you would never know who had done it.
Suppose a gas fitter with 30 years experience installed a system but their registration had lapsed and a three month registered gas fitter installed a system would you fail the 30 year persons system if the systems were both of the same standard?
So you would look to see if it complied with the regulations and pass it, if you never, you would have to declare every system you met ID and turn it off, because you did not know if the person who installed it was ACS or not.
Try that with a big landlord and you will probably soon find yourself out of work. The operative word is "Safe" you are employed to decide whether it is "Safe" or not, not who is qualified or not.
Why do we suppose both CORGI and GAS SAFE want to see your work even after registration and proof of qualification?
A Gas escape is not concerned with regulations but good work makes a system safer. So look at the quality not the qualification.
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