Electric combi boiler for underfloor heating and rads - off the grid

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Serfer

Please don't take offence, but from your posts its clear that you have just enough knowledge to be dangerous - either to life and limb, or more likely to your bank balance. Either settle down and do some serious (non-google) research, or take the guys advice and get an expert in.

 

[Gray0689]

I'm not a fan of thermal stores
There ok if a secondary heat source is being utilised but if not just an expensive cylinder

Where all different so we all like different things

But unless your house is very well insulated any and all will cost you to run

 

[Ray Stafford]

There ok if a secondary heat source is being utilised but if not just an expensive cylinder

Agreed. By far the best use for a thermal store is to integrate multiple heat sources, or (usually on a large scale) to dump the heat from an uncontrolled source.

For most domestic purposes they just add unnecessary complexity.

 

[SimonG]

As I mentioned in post #4.

Unvented direct cylinder, as long as static pressure, dynamic pressure and water flow are satisfactory. Needs to be installed by a suitably qualified engineer.
Amptec for rads.
Amptec for underfloor. This is a specific boiler that runs at a lower temperature for ufh. Theres no point using a normal boiler and overheating the water to kix it to lower temperatures.

The above will take very little room. I did a direct unvented and amptec for 10 rads in a small airing cupboard.

 

[serfer]

Hello again Simon, I remember the post. Would really need two boilers? Would one boiler running at low temp and feeding both ufh & large surface area rads suffice?

And Ray... The expert i got in suggested electric combi! I actually had a few in. Almost all just wanted to know what I wanted and didnt come with solutions.

 

[antdad]

The silence is deafening isn't it? Besides some confusion over electric combi storage heaters you've been given sound advice and even some basic calculations that you insist on ignoring, questioning or plainly just don't understand.

I'll try one last time, here's what you wrote...

I have been been investigating heat source and distribution since November and have resigned myself to having no option other than electric. Or 47kg bottled calor gas. I really don't have much room downstairs (trying to start running a business from home that needs equipment and loads of storage) and the loft is 350yrs old and cant take the weight of a tank up there.

Given that you say you have no outside land you can't use ground source but did you dismiss bottled gas because you thought you had to store the bottles inside (including those feeding the boiler)? A bottle cage will have the footprint of about four paving slabs and positioned against the outside wall of your home, all you need internally is space for a wall mounted system boiler and a high pressure vessel (which can be positioned anywhere given the right conditions) that will provide all the hot water you'll ever need for both bathrooms. I'd make room for these whatever it takes because frankly irrespective of your business acumen, if you continue to pursue an all electric course (if it's even feasible) whatever money you make will be going towards your electric bill.

 

[markfxy]

electric combis are so called because they combine an electric boiler and a cylinder in one unit hence the term combi they are not the same as a gas combi which is an instantaneous water heater (heat exchanger) combined with a heating boiler

 

[serfer]

So what do you think markfxy? Electric combi is cheaper to run than amptec and cylinder?

And anydad... You have a pretty poor attitude. If you read the above youll see i have explored all the ideas given, and pointed out some confusion and conflicting advice. Not ignoring anyone. I know i can store calor bottle outside, but at 16p per unit its the most expensive option there is. Thx for your time taken to contribute, and I'm sure you know your stuff, but its the least useful post i have had. I'm stuck with electric, just trying to figure out the best way to deal with this reality. Thx again to all!

 

[markfxy]

electric combi is amptec and cylinder! I just explained that part of it to you

 

[dancinplumba]

Have you considered Air to Water heat pump ?

 

[serfer]

Hmm... Yup. When i mention amptec above i meant boiler. Sorry! Electric flow boiler plus direct unvented cylinder costs around £1000 inc vat.
Electric amptec electromax combi has internal storage of 150 litres for example weighs in at around £1500...

so i guess i go with the separate boiler and cylinder. A bigger cylinder probably best.

 

[serfer]

Air to water heat pump costs around £10,000. Just cant afford it

 

[SimonG]

There are electric combination boilers which 'combine' an amptec, or similar electric boiler, and an unvented cylinder. Then there are electric combi boilers along the same lines as a gas combi, an elnur gabarron springs to mind. Looks like a gas combi and has a small hot water store.

 

[dancinplumba]

16p kWh for LPG, 10k for air to water ????? Where you live central London ?

 

[serfer]

Doh!> > 16p per unit of calor gas, keep up! LPG is 6 or 7p sure but I cant fit the tank anywhere. I've had loads of teams come to the cottage and 16kw high temp daikin or panasonic or mitsubishi is going to cost just under 10k inc vat. If you can do it cheaper, lets talk!

Simon! THANKS AGAIN! There seem to be some of us here who don't know too much about the electric side of things -or maybe i use the wrong terms or jargon gets in the way... whatever.

Still... I'm not sure whether to get the store and boiler together in one unit (what i call electric combi) - or go for a boiler and direct cylinder as separates.

3 beds, 2 baths, 2 kids under 10... underfloor heating of 75sqm, 4 large area rads and 2 little towel rads. i feel we almost have a resolution... ... ...!

 

[dancinplumba]

Doh !!!! Silly me......am sure Calor gas is LPG is it not ?

 

[serfer]

maybe lpg is calor... but i cannot fit a huge lpg tank on the property. i can dump a few47kg calorbottles outside = but then i pay about 16p a unit, which is just plain daft but there you go.

 

[dancinplumba]

Nope, Calor is LPG. Learn summat new every day

 

[markfxy]

Air source heat pump will be way cheaper to run and if you get an installer that's MCS registered you'l get the RHI payments reducing the payback considerably against an electric boiler

 

[rpm]

Could be being daft but .....

Can you bury a gas tank like you can an oil tank?

 

[dancinplumba]

Yes you can

 

[dancinplumba]

Can you bury an oil tank ?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

God, this thread twisted my melon man :lol:

 

[rpm]

Not my area dancin but didn`t I see somewhere in another post that you can?

 

[SimonG]

Yes you can bury an oil tank.