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fully qualified plumber in two weeks.

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tamz said:
So it is😱 Shoulda been 3412😀😀😀

As Kirk said it wouldn't change the answer tho
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yes it does!.

there is an element that i am wrong so bare this in mind.

i get 79.211cm2, just as a hint.
 
i am going to re-read your answer then get me book out to check something...
then probably appologise, give me a mo.


thought so;
i was wrong.lol
thinking balanced flue.

so answer is; as you say or
option b,
44cm2 and 88cm2
 
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jase158 said:
Are you saying that people are only worthy to be a plmber if they start from the bottom up, passing tools, watching how someone else does it, making tea and working your way up?
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That's how I did it.And I think that's the best way for people to enter the trade.

I've not employed an apprentice personally yet,but I've had a few while I was working for a firm,and as Tamz says,I wouldn't employ an older trainee for the same reasons. My decision to take on an apprentice would need me to keep costs down,and young lads will settle for less,and I don't think someone would be happy to work for free for long,no matter how many times I see that written. It's not the way it should be done anyway.

I don't know why people seem to think that plumbing is a free for all where everyone can have a go,it seems that idea developed and the training centres jumped and grabbed it with both hands,some of the training ads are beyond belief,saying 70-100k is on the cards for all.Complete nonsense.

To answer the original question,No,fast tracks aren't good for the industry,the standards have dropped.
 
REDSAW said:
Hope i didnt miss-read the training provider there,
but it states the course is for experienced plumbers?.

How did you get on the gas course or are they short cutting their own standards for ££££?
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I did the full time course which states...
ahem...
'Our fast track Get to Gas course is suitable for anyone wishing to embark on a financially rewarding career as a qualified heating engineer. Whether you have no experience at all and want to start from scratch, or have basic plumbing ability you want to develop, our training will equip you with the necessary skills required to undertake gas work on-site.'
 
I think we (career changers) are between a rock & a hard place. We fall into these courses promising all, pay a whopping wedge of hard earned & then we are mocked by the industry for doing so, despite being qualified (albeit without a huge amount of experience). I know fast trackers (mainly gas) who have been trading for years & they are still referred to as fast trackers by the time served guys.
At what point does a fast tracker with all the qualifications & then some with a few years experience under their belt become 'time served' or considered worthy of their career title?
It's a bit village mentality if you ask me, you know, when someone new moves in & after 50 years of living there, they're still referred to as 'the new people'...!
 
Dormouse said:
I think we (career changers) are between a rock & a hard place. We fall into these courses promising all, pay a whopping wedge of hard earned & then we are mocked by the industry for doing so, despite being qualified (albeit without a huge amount of experience). I know fast trackers (mainly gas) who have been trading for years & they are still referred to as fast trackers by the time served guys.
At what point does a fast tracker with all the qualifications & then some with a few years experience under their belt become 'time served' or considered worthy of their career title?
It's a bit village mentality if you ask me, you know, when someone new moves in & after 50 years of living there, they're still referred to as 'the new people'...!
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In answer to your question, a fast tracker or for that matter anyone is considered worthy of their career title, when they can prove that the work that they do is done to a very high standard, efficiently and conscientiously as required by this industry.
I have nothing personal against people who change their career, however I do have an issue with those that compete with me while having no experience and giving the profession a bad name. It takes a lot nowadays for people to get a professional in and not diy it. A botched job by an inexperienced person with little or no experience not only gives the profession a bad name, but puts people off from getting a tradesman in the next time. I have seen a catalogue of basic and costly errors done by people who have completed a course and not gained enough practical experience on the job.
Why do you fast track and not sit a proper apprenticeship? Do you actually believe the 70k plus earnings or are you gullible enough to not have done any research into this before parting with your large course fees?
I'll take on young kids out of school and train them properly and give them a chance of a career and a future. Sadly many fast trackers I suspect are either bored with their career, failed at it, or only want to become a plumber due to what they consider financial gain. I would NOT employ such a person with this criteria and I doubt any employers would either.
 
nothing wrong with career changers, but the posts on here were from people who have done fast tracks and then complained that they didnt know enough whilst defending fast tracks??? i havnt made a judgement just pointed out that you cannot blame the qualification but the people who offer and deliver a fast track get you a sert but you dont know anything (your words not mine) this is a clear contradiction
 
Well there's ageism laws against that in this country, and anyway I personally would employ someone that I find the most suitable for the job regardless of age. Sadly most are in it for the quick fix financial gain promised by the training centres.
If you've reached your 30's, 40's or 50's then you've at least gained some training and had/still have a career. School leavers don't have that priviledge and that's my reason for taking on young apprentices to give them a start in life, proper training and a future.
 
YES, LVL 3 + ACS, 3 Year Apprenticeship. Just starting my first proper job.
 
jase158 said:
I did my training at college and did the fast track for my nvq,

No they are Not destroying the industry, The Plumbers who will not take on an apprentice, Is ruining the industry, I sent 160 letters to plumbers, offering to work for free to gain experience and received a disgraceful 10 replies all saying NO. How am I suppose to learn if nobody will take me on.

I learnt all the building regs, i.e. at college.

But the 2 weeks courses are actually 10 weeks. This is 50 days. College have 2 days a week over 24 weeks, equalling 48 days so you work it out.

The NVQ is 6 visits on site, which is exactly the same as in college.

For me there is no different, except that the college is all a bunch of 16-18 year olds who do not want to be there, and they have had it all free.
Training centres are all people who actually want to be there and have paid for their course so there is about 30 per cent more training time.
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why is it a disgrace you wrote to 160 plumbers and not 1 would take you on ?

the 'bunch of 16-18 year olds who do not want to be there' are proper apprentices , who have a bit of foresight to see earning low wages for 4 years and learning a trade is going to be worth it in the long run. so what they muck around in the class/workshop and have a laugh , it s all part of growing up and serving your time.


was earning £25 a week (+ yad) for my first year , while my mates were on £100-150 as posties , insurance clerks etc. they thought i was a mug working for less than a £1/hr .

give them a choke with a manhole full to the brim of shyte 1st thing on a monday morning and they re soon wishing they were back sorting letters or eyeing up the tidy blond whos just started in the office.

once a 6 monther , always a 6 monther .
i ll take on a young local lad or lassy and pass on the craft and the opportunity to learn a trade properly.

do you do any lead work on these fast track courses ? would be a con and a scam imo if you can call yourself a plumber without being able to work with the material the trades named after.
 
I am considering never having another apprentice !(hopefully I will get over this) Am now facing an industrial tribuneral for an apprentice who swore at me and then left ! Now claims unfair dissmissal , gets legal aid etc.
You cannot work for free !!!! Its illegal on the employer, you find out all sorts when you are facing court !(our apprentice was paid by the way )
 
tamz said:
Doesn't come into it with apprenticeships. The adult apprenticeship scheme was officially closed in 2008.
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and rightly so, was in the same year as an adult apprentice he finished end of 3rd and i was still an apprentice in 4th, i was better than him and he was making alot of costly mistakes !
 
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