G3 qualification and unvented hot water cylinder certificate

[GC2]

Hi,
I've had a boiler and unvented pressurised hot water cylinder installed. I have received the Gas Safe certificate for my boiler install but nothing for the cylinder. I've been in touch with the plumber and he says he doesn't apply for that for customers and I would have to do it myself. Is this right? I don't know his G3 qualification number. How would I go about getting the certificate?

Thanks

 

[king of pipes]

Normally the installers responsibility I do mine through gas Safe

 

[moonlight]

Here is the link for you to check.

Competent persons (building control registration) | Heatrae Sadia

Information and advice on selecting a competent installer for Heatrae Sadia or Megaflo products and the relevant building control registrations legislation.

www.heatraesadia.com

 

[Last Plumber]

I normally register my customers for them. I think most do to be honest. Maybe he isn't a member of a competent persons Scheme. Has he offered help on how to get the installation registered?

 

[GC2]

I normally register my customers for them. I think most do to be honest. Maybe he isn't a member of a competent persons Scheme. Has he offered help on how to get the installation registered?

Thanks for your reply. He's just said he only does the boiler certificate and the cylinder is something I can get myself. I'm beginning to think he doesn't have the qualification to install them (he has left everything blank on the cylinder label). Is it a legal requirement to have the G3 (?) ticket and to provide the certificate?

Thanks again

 

[king of pipes]

I would be careful it is a legal requirement to have it registered with building control.

 

[Brambles]

If you contact your Local Authority Building Control and explain the issue they will advise you of the fee, which you pay upfront and they will inspect and if it is compliant certify it.
In Oxon the fee is around £85 - as opposed to around £3 through Gas Safe

 

[green grant]

The only people who care about certificates is building control. It has absolutely nothing to do with the private company gas safe (capita). Do you have reason to believe its a gas safety issue? If so, a gas safe complaint might prompt them to contact building control for you but you could easily do that yourself. Is it a saftety issue? not installed correctly and a danger? then again, building control (HSE have no durisdiction in the home). So it all goes back to building control. They have the authority to enforce your installer to put things right (court action) and in doing do, give you the ticket. It would be the rarest of things to end up in court as they always work to get things put right. Building control in all probability would not send anyone out to check (if you say things are OK) as they would have to pay someone to do it and that fee can't be passed back to you. I'm sure that once things are passed 12 months then they (building control) can't do anything anyway..unless its dangerous..in which case that should be your concern anyway

 

[Brambles]

Green Grant

In addition to the Competent Persons scheme that they operate for Gas, they also act as a Competent Persons scheme for G3 - provided that you are Gas Safe Registered.

Hence the reference in the postings above to Gas Safe - but not in the context of gas.

 

[GC2]

The only people who care about certificates is building control. It has absolutely nothing to do with the private company gas safe (capita). Do you have reason to believe its a gas safety issue? If so, a gas safe complaint might prompt them to contact building control for you but you could easily do that yourself. Is it a saftety issue? not installed correctly and a danger? then again, building control (HSE have no durisdiction in the home). So it all goes back to building control. They have the authority to enforce your installer to put things right (court action) and in doing do, give you the ticket. It would be the rarest of things to end up in court as they always work to get things put right. Building control in all probability would not send anyone out to check (if you say things are OK) as they would have to pay someone to do it and that fee can't be passed back to you. I'm sure that once things are passed 12 months then they (building control) can't do anything anyway..unless its dangerous..in which case that should be your concern anyway

My main concerns are: it's a legal requirement and if I were to sell the house solicitors would enquire about it, I have no idea if it is installed correctly, and I presume any warranty is invalid if it hasn't been installed by a competent person.

Maybe I'm worried about nothing but is it legal to install these and then not provide a certificate? (Assuming he has a G3)

 

[Chuck]

Is this right?

No. Assuming this is a standard domestic installation he should should normally be a member of a scheme and can self-certify the installation via the scheme. There is an alternative route, which is to notifiy Building Control prior to installation, then have them inspect the installation once its done but I've never known a qualified plumber do it this way.

Until proved otherwise, work on the assumption that you've been conned and now have a problem on your hands. That means building control, trading standards, solicitor or citizen's advice, etc. Check your buildings insurance to see if you have 'legal cover'. As advised above, try Building Control first. If you're polite and make it clear you're trying to do the right thing I've always found them very helpful.

You want to get it fixed now while you can still use the Small Claims Court to recover costs from your plumber. Don't leave it until you sell the house because it is very likely to become an issue at that point. Also, incorrectly installed unvented HW systems are potentially very dangerous. That's why they are regulated.

 

[king of pipes]

No. Assuming this is a standard domestic installation he should should normally be a member of a scheme and can self-certify the installation via the scheme. There is an alternative route, which is to notifiy Building Control prior to installation, then have them inspect the installation once its done but I've never known a qualified plumber do it this way.

Until proved otherwise, work on the assumption that you've been conned and now have a problem on your hands. That means building control, trading standards, solicitor or citizen's advice, etc. Check your buildings insurance to see if you have 'legal cover'. As advised above, try Building Control first. If you're polite and make it clear you're trying to do the right thing I've always found them very helpful.

You want to get it fixed now while you can still use the Small Claims Court to recover costs from your plumber. Don't leave it until you sell the house because it is very likely to become an issue at that point. Also, incorrectly installed unvented HW systems are potentially very dangerous. That's why they are regulated.

Very well explained Chuck .

 

[king of pipes]

GC2 a question for you have you and the installer fallen out over this ? , If not then I would be contacting him again tell him you need a certificate much the same as the one he has provided for the gas boiler install, if he's unable to supply this then maybe he has a colleague who can check it over and recommission it not ideal but it does happen and would get you round the problem, if this doesn't spur him on then contact your local building control to have the cylinder install inspected it's worth the £85 ish for the peace of mind your home insurance stays valid you and your family stay safe and should you sell the property then the correct paperwork is in place it's easy enough to check with gas Safe register to see if he's G3 or not although there other institutions who can issue authority to do installs bpec ect . Regards kop

 

[GC2]

No. Assuming this is a standard domestic installation he should should normally be a member of a scheme and can self-certify the installation via the scheme. There is an alternative route, which is to notifiy Building Control prior to installation, then have them inspect the installation once its done but I've never known a qualified plumber do it this way.

Until proved otherwise, work on the assumption that you've been conned and now have a problem on your hands. That means building control, trading standards, solicitor or citizen's advice, etc. Check your buildings insurance to see if you have 'legal cover'. As advised above, try Building Control first. If you're polite and make it clear you're trying to do the right thing I've always found them very helpful.

You want to get it fixed now while you can still use the Small Claims Court to recover costs from your plumber. Don't leave it until you sell the house because it is very likely to become an issue at that point. Also, incorrectly installed unvented HW systems are potentially very dangerous. That's why they are regulated.

Thanks for your reply. And to everyone's replies. All very helpful. I'll speak to my plumber again and see what he says. Not very hopeful that he'll say, "Oh sorry, my mistake. Of course I'm completely qualified and I'll get it sorted for you."

 

[GC2]

GC2 a question for you have you and the installer fallen out over this ? , If not then I would be contacting him again tell him you need a certificate much the same as the one he has provided for the gas boiler install, if he's unable to supply this then maybe he has a colleague who can check it over and recommission it not ideal but it does happen and would get you round the problem, if this doesn't spur him on then contact your local building control to have the cylinder install inspected it's worth the £85 ish for the peace of mind your home insurance stays valid you and your family stay safe and should you sell the property then the correct paperwork is in place it's easy enough to check with gas Safe register to see if he's G3 or not although there other institutions who can issue authority to do installs bpec ect . Regards kop

No we haven't fallen out so I'll phone him again today. I thought this was what he might suggest if he wasn't qualified. I was a bit surprised that he just left a message saying - Nothing to do with me. Not particularly looking forward to the call...

 

[moonlight]

If he is gas safe the unvented cylinder qualification will show on his card. It is on mine.

 

[king of pipes]

No we haven't fallen out so I'll phone him again today. I thought this was what he might suggest if he wasn't qualified. I was a bit surprised that he just left a message saying - Nothing to do with me. Not particularly looking forward to the call...

Just tell him you're conserns A - Your home insurance could be affected as you have no cert to say it's fitted correctly , B - if you sell the property then the buyers solicitor will want to see the certificate, offer to work with him to get the situation resolved . Regards Kop

 

[GC2]

Just tell him you're conserns A - Your home insurance could be affected as you have no cert to say it's fitted correctly , B - if you sell the property then the buyers solicitor will want to see the certificate, offer to work with him to get the situation resolved . Regards Kop

Thanks. I have now done this. He assures me he is qualified but has just never needed to do this in 25 years of plumbing. I'm not sure how easy it is do certify it afterwards but he says he will. Thanks again everyone for all your help

 

[GC2]

If he is gas safe the unvented cylinder qualification will show on his card. It is on mine.

He's definitely gas safe as the boiler certificate came through straight away. I just didn't realise the cylinder needed one too

 

[king of pipes]

Shouldn't be a problem then? a a few pictures would give a indication of the install you have . Kop

 

[green grant]

My main concerns are: it's a legal requirement and if I were to sell the house solicitors would enquire about it, I have no idea if it is installed correctly, and I presume any warranty is invalid if it hasn't been installed by a competent person.

Maybe I'm worried about nothing but is it legal to install these and then not provide a certificate? (Assuming he has a G3)

so how does a competent person prove he's competent when he does not have to prove he's competent? who guards the guard?

 

[green grant]

No. Assuming this is a standard domestic installation he should should normally be a member of a scheme and can self-certify the installation via the scheme. There is an alternative route, which is to notifiy Building Control prior to installation, then have them inspect the installation once its done but I've never known a qualified plumber do it this way.

Until proved otherwise, work on the assumption that you've been conned and now have a problem on your hands. That means building control, trading standards, solicitor or citizen's advice, etc. Check your buildings insurance to see if you have 'legal cover'. As advised above, try Building Control first. If you're polite and make it clear you're trying to do the right thing I've always found them very helpful.

You want to get it fixed now while you can still use the Small Claims Court to recover costs from your plumber. Don't leave it until you sell the house because it is very likely to become an issue at that point. Also, incorrectly installed unvented HW systems are potentially very dangerous. That's why they are regulated.

1. Trading standards won't get involved. Why should they? 2. Solicitor? just throwing money away, how do you get to lay a private prosecution in the courts? 3. Small claims court..how do you find a forensic plumber to prepare the documents? YOu don't, you would need a real engineer to do that..expensive..

 

[GC2]

1. Trading standards won't get involved. Why should they? 2. Solicitor? just throwing money away, how do you get to lay a private prosecution in the courts? 3. Small claims court..how do you find a forensic plumber to prepare the documents? YOu don't, you would need a real engineer to do that..expensive..

Hi green grant,

Sorry, I don't really understand your questions in your recent posts. Are you asking them to me?

 

[king of pipes]

so how does a competent person prove he's competent when he does not have to prove he's competent? who guards the guard?

so how does a competent person prove he's competent when he does not have to prove he's competent? who guards the guard?

A competent person will hold a current G3 qualification which allows him or her to install commission and then sign off the installation which will then inform building control of the work and allow a certificate to be issued.
Its the customers responsibility to check the installer's qualification and insurance before work commences there will always be installer's who bend the rules. Kop

 

[Timmy D]

If he is gas safe the unvented cylinder qualification will show on his card. It is on mine.

Not always, it’s not on mine, even after prodding GS before my last new card.