Gas Safe Engineers

[Bernie2]

Yes it is true gas fitters have been charged with manslaughter over bad jobs. But many of them have been GSR registered. Is the problem one of course cost recovery or are we trying to protect our work? Both of which have nothing to so with safety. A forum is supposed to be a place where people can give an opinion to those who ask not a closed club. I have no idea if all GSR gas fitters are any good or not if they blow people up as well as DIYers. It seems to me that just being GSR is thought to make a person a perfect gas fitter, I imagine that is not true. No wonder people and customers do not trust you to be fair to them and are possibly rip off merchants. The market needs opening up with competition to get realistic pricing. But while we have expensive courses that is hardly likely to happen. That is not working in the publics best interest and warning people about how they might get ripped off by unethical trades people is a public service. Telling people their likely problem is a £2.50 thermocouple may save them £100's of pounds or question their bill. As to safety knowing when your boiler or gas stove needs attention is paramount. Having worked as a Plumber/gas fitter for more years than I care to mention I know how neglectful of their own safety through ignorance people can be. Inform them and they just might do something about it, don't inform them and it usually proves they do not. So proper informed information is a key point in safety.

 

[Kyle87]

So you advise a thermocouple and customer saves a few hundred quid.

But fails to recognise the cow horns that they paint over every year as a threat and now you helped them get their appliance working, YOU have out them in danger because you are not there to see the job. Just giving advice over a forum!!

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm! Unless you live in the house with the person and inspect the appliance every time it is used you would never know when it was going wrong. It is impractical for you to do so. Just explain to the people, with that knowledge they can work it out for themselves. I imagine most people get killed through gas accidents because they don't know the dangers than those who do. When I have worked d on properties with blocked internal air vents once explained to the customer why it is important to keep them clear they seem to change their mind about blocking them up. Once you explain to a customer that the explosions in the boiler are late ignition gas valve problems they usually get it fixed. What is it with you guys and gas safety? it is not rocket science or a state secret its a matter of all our safety the more people know the safer it will probably be.

 

[AWheating]

its one thing talking face to face with a customer, its another thing giving advise to a stranger on an open forum. Yes this stranger could be full of common sense and a skilled diyer but this person is more likely to be a builder, unregisterd engineer or landlord. If you have a way of knowing the difference please share it with us?

if your new neighbour that moved in next door yesterday knocked on your door and asked to borrow your u gauge because hes fixing the boiler and read on the internet how to test his gas supply would you be concerned??

 

[Kyle87]

I've got no problem with explaining why the ventilation is there.

But telling a customer how to calculate required ventilation would be arming them to attempt DIY gas work and run the risk of getting it wrong.

The point I am personally making is we shouldn't be giving people the kind of advice that may lead to an attempt of the work being carried out.

Explaining somethings can be a good thing,

Like why customers shouldn't put a high level grill on the very top out of the way so they can warm plates for a Sunday dinner.

 

[Gary71]

Having worked as a Plumber/gas fitter for more years than I care to mention I know how neglectful of their own safety through ignorance people can be. Inform them and they just might do something about it, don't inform them and it usually proves they do not. So proper informed information is a key point in safety.

I love helping people because its nice to be nice but I decide how much information I give them based on my working experiences and witnessing the stupidity of others(at times). It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one, I feel I have "duty of care" People never think its going to be them so they take risks. Why would you want to give them the green light to faff with a appliance?


I know how easy it is to make a mistake from my own, the times in the past i'v called back to a job because I couldn't remember if I tested something, I'm not so sure if you can get gasmans paranoia from following instructions on the net.


You mentioned you're a gas fitter I find it strange that your so trusting of others. I don't trust anybody, how many times have you found ventilation blocked in away to fool you, year after year on regular services:mad2: also I remember what it was like before regulation and it wasn't pretty.


Most of the deaths or explosions i'v witnessed have been due to simple mistakes or a moment of stupidity, I don't think any real gas fitter will apologise for being a bit boring or repetitive when it comes to gas safety, so if your not a RGI then jog on.

 

[poorman]

"It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one"

Yer right

 

[Gary71]

"It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one"

Yer right

Why would that be so hard to believe, it's a bit simplistic to assume it's a money ting, I'm a technician and theres not much money tidying up others faux pars.

Taking in to account the inherent risks with working on gas(albeit minimal in some peoples eyes) how could it ever be deemed safe to work on gas, book or forum led?

Any trade that involves a safety risk should be restricted because it makes it more difficult for those without basic understanding and hopefully prevents them from thinking it's ok to have a pop themselves.

What I do isn't rocket science but mistakes are very easy to make and dangers may not be recognised by the inexperienced.

 

[Sean27]

Can u send the link so I can pass on my gas safe details please thanks

 

[AWheating]

Can u send the link so I can pass on my gas safe details please thanks

hi mate, please send a private message to redsaw or gasman with your details if you want to gain access to the gas safe only forum.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm! Risk is inherent in life, it is more a matter of trust. You cannot stop people doing things wrong. You can say nothing to them and just let them blow up a few houses just to find out they are wrong if you like. But education and information of the right kind may just divert a disaster for somebody. I often found customer blocked air grills and people who thought it okay to block them. What would you say to them? "Please do not block the grills?" or tell them why they should not block the grills and what size the grill should be?
You guys make it sound like your a car sales person who will not tell the customer where the brakes are in case they press the accelerator pedal.

 

[Dotty]

Hmm! Risk is inherent in life, it is more a matter of trust. You cannot stop people doing things wrong. You can say nothing to them and just let them blow up a few houses just to find out they are wrong if you like. But education and information of the right kind may just divert a disaster for somebody. I often found customer blocked air grills and people who thought it okay to block them. What would you say to them? "Please do not block the grills?" or tell them why they should not block the grills and what size the grill should be?
You guys make it sound like your a car sales person who will not tell the customer where the brakes are in case they press the accelerator pedal.

Oh. You're back.

Thought you'd given up on this. Take a friendly word of advice. Give up on this.

 

[solutions]

Hey guys I'll be dealing with the aweful power max 155x. Clients says it doesn't fire up for demand of hot water only.....any ideas!????

Cheers fellas.

Are the customers not getting hot water or is it not firing on hot water just want to clarify as not getting hot water is likely just a duff hot water hex pump. If its not firing it could be a number of things.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Are the customers not getting hot water or is it not firing on ho****er just want to clarify as not getting hot water is likely just a duff hot water hex pump. If its not firing it could be a number of things.

The post you are quoting is 10 months old. Probably sorted by now.

 

[solutions]

To avoid accidents inform people so they can recognise the dangers. Don't inform them and they can kill through ignorance. Most of the information on this forum can be gained elsewhere if people decide to look. Not being free with advice is just silly makes gas fitters look like a secret society.

In principle I understand where you are coming from however there is a big difference between educating someone about the dangers or risks associated with gas appliances and giving someone instructions on how to undertake a repair over a forum where without experience and training to guide the individual the information could be miss understood missinterpreted or just not followed correctly. A large proportion of modern gas appliances require sophisticated and expensive equipment to conclude repairs or replacement of parts to insure they are both installed and adjusted correctly. Even if a customer had the skills they could not safely complete the job. I would not want to give out information that could cause injury by its interpretation when misused. Despite my underlying desire to help people which is not driven by financial gain.
There are forum's out there on the giant internet where information and frequently misinformation is readily available and shared between individuals unqualified and unsafe to carry out the repair who readily admit they have carried out a repair or more frequently attempted and failed or worse still attempted and created more serious faults.
I wont participate in those forums, You are welcome too.

 

[Ermintrude]

Well if you had blocked the vent then the custard would be getting a lovely bit of paper from a duplicate pad, think AT RISK, switching appliance off and then charging to relight and correct the grill would be all the education most punters need.

 

[solutions]

Not knowing possibly causes more accidents than information. In the gsr industry people seem largely not knowing about safety and do not see the reason for danger until you tell them. But the Gas Safety Register is supposed to help ensure peoples safety but possibly only if they know what they are being kept safe from. If a person thinks getting in a gsr fitter is going to cost them far more that they can afford and they think the job is easy based on not knowing they will probably have a go themselves. That is not promoting safe practices. By giving out information you are warning them as to the dangers, if they then go ahead and still do it, that problem is theirs. You at least tried to warn them it was not simple. Anyway they can always buy Torreys or Viper books they have been available for years to the general public. A GSR fitters job is to promote safety not form a secret club.

When has anyone thought a job was easy because they did not know how to do it. I dont know how to change the cam belt on an engine I dont therefore assume it is easy. I could go on the internet and learn how to do it from some you tube videos and possibly attempt it. Will I have the working experience to feel that something is not right or spot that I have done something wrong or missed something out no. Your analogies are ridiculous and I can no longer see the point in your continued argument. Can you explain to me what you want the outcome from your posts to be? I can save you time typing and inform you if it will happen or not.

 

[Dotty]

He's been given a 2 week holiday for now. See how he views it when he comes back.

 

[SimonG]

He's been given a 2 week holiday for now. See how he views it when he comes back.

Anywhere nice?

 

[Dotty]

Anywhere nice?

Somewhere comtemplative I hope.......

 

[solutions]

The post you are quoting is 10 months old. Probably sorted by now.

Thanks Ray. Really should learn to read the dates on these brought back to life threads.

 

[malone]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

 

[chris watkins]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

Please have a look at what you have typed cos it makes no sense at all.

 

[Toxic Ted]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

Lost me.

 

[malone]

Sorry guys it was a long day!!!
I'm trying to work out the ventilation need to an open flued appliance!! (gross)

I know to get nett I divide gross by 1.11 = net
Then -7(adventitious vent) and x by 5 gives me cmsq

But say if the appliance has a rating between 18kw and 22Kw. How do I get a figure to divide by 1.11???
Or am I missing something!!!

Thanks for reply's