Hot water from Valliant Boiler

[Burger]

Hello, i may recall if correctly, the engineer installed the hive after it was commissioned (im not 100% certain). The hot water schedule runs set time 0645 - 0800; then 1630-2130. Due to no hot water (luke warm), the engineer says to us leave the immersion on constant

Is that Luke warm with heating on or just hot water only?

 

[king of pipes]

Automatic bypass in the boiler according to instructions

Not much use in there bud can't lose any residual heat in the boiler when in pump overun , better to be in the airing cupboard before the controls . Kop

 

[Burger]

Not much use in there bud can't lose any residual heat in the boiler when in pump overun , better to be in the airing cupboard before the controls . Kop

Thanks for that.

 

[Hisham Al-Bizri]

Was your hive fitted with the boiler or after? Is it that it's been wired incorrectly and you haven't noticed due to over winter having the heating on?

 

[Margaret T]

Was your hive fitted with the boiler or after? Is it that it's been wired incorrectly and you haven't noticed due to over winter having the heating on?

the hive was fitted after the engineer installed the boiler. It was all part of the package. When the boiler was up and running, the hive was then set up and run on schedule timings. Greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot

 

[Margaret T]

Is that Luke warm with heating on or just hot water only?

The water is only Luke warm only. ....
So before testing, the water was like warm, the immersion was off and made sure the water was cold where possible.

The hive pressed hot water boost 30 minutes at 25 degrees. Duration of 14 minutes remaining, the water was only Luke warm. And the full 30 minutes, the water was only Luke warm. Felt the pipe work surrounding the hot water cylinder and it was warm / cold. The boiler displayed 75 reading on screen with 1.9 bar.

I also noted when I pressed cancel hot water on the hive, the drayton zone valve - the black clip slides downwards.

Test number 2.
Immersion switch off.
Hive boost both hot water and heat and within 14 minutes, felt the pipe work connect to hot water cylinder heat picking up and gradually 25 minutes very hot. Noted the display on the boiler was 35 with bar 2.4.

Not sure what the issue could be. Tried calling the valliant installer back, but still awaiting to hear back at present.

Any help / advice would greatly appreciate. Thanks a lot.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

It is almost certainly a control issue and not a boiler related problem. Was the Hive system installed at the time the boiler was commissioned, or was it added later? I have seen a number of issues where Hive has been added and not wired in correctly, impacting hot water supply (or lack of it).

In my view, the fact that you can get hot water when the heating is on means that it is unlikely to be a valve problem. You have an S plan with two two port valves. To get hot water and heating together (as you describe) both valves must be opening.

My conclusion, is that the control wiring has been inadvertently changed resulting in the two control valves operating in tandem when Central Heating is called, with no operation when only Hot Water is called.

I assume that when you set the system (the boiler) to deliver hot water only the boiler does not fire up. Is that correct?

It is probably a very easy fix - one wire in the the wrong terminal.

hello, from your description above, hot water + heating there is hot water, but hot water boost on its own there is none except like warm water. Where would this terminal wire be? Thanks a lot.

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

25 degrees C for hot water is luke warm. Hot water is 50 to 55 degreesC

 

[Burger]

So, if you boost the hot water via hive, could you not have turned down the temperature? I’m not up on hives, but I’m wondering if that has a separate temp control? How do you know it’s 25 degrees?

 

[Margaret T]

So, if you boost the hot water via hive, could you not have turned down the temperature? I’m not up on hives, but I’m wondering if that has a separate temp control? How do you know it’s 25 degrees?

Thanks CBW1982, I note on the hot water cylinder the thermostat is is pointing to 75 degrees; the hive boost shows 25 degrees. British gas came and just turned the hive switch which allows you to adjust to temperature. Will upload photos

 

[Burger]

Thanks CBW1982, I note on the hot water cylinder the thermostat is is pointing to 75 degrees; the hive boost shows 25 degrees. British gas came and just turned the hive switch which allows you to adjust to temperature. Will upload photos

Cylinder stat should be between 60 and 65, anything more and there’s a risk of scalding and scale starts being produced.

 

[Margaret T]

Cylinder stat should be between 60 and 65, anything more and there’s a risk of scalding and scale starts being produced.

Thanks for that, not sure if the installer or British gas turned the cylinder thermostat back up as the very first time when installed it was set at 55 but now looking at the other set of photos it is showing 70?!

Everything was working fine between September 2018 - December 2018. Problems only started to occur from January 2019 when heating switched off.

 

[Burger]

Thanks for that, not sure if the installer or British gas turned the cylinder thermostat back up as the very first time when installed it was set at 55 but now looking at the other set of photos it is showing 70?!

Everything was working fine between September 2018 - December 2018. Problems only started to occur from January 2019 when heating switched off.

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View attachment 38373

Have you tried just turning the dial up when in hot water?

 

[Margaret T]

Have you tried just turning the dial up when in hot water?

I will try this and let you know. Thanks a lot CBW1982.

Should the hot water cylinder be adjusted back to 55 as per the first set up? I never touched this and noticed the changed after.

 

[Burger]

I will try this and let you know. Thanks a lot CBW1982.

Should the hot water cylinder be adjusted back to 55 as per the first set up? I never touched this and noticed the changed after.

I wouldn’t set it to 55, as it can still promote bacteria growth, 60 is probably your best bet (kills the bacteria)

 

[Margaret T]

Not the best install but nothing obvious from your pictures apart from no auto bypass ? You need a route for the pump overun to circulate and displace the heat in the boiler when the 2 port valves close , you definitely should not need to have the immersion heater on 24 - 7 they are more for a back up should something fail , if I had to diagnose the fault I would start with checking the 2 port valve on the hot water system , check it is motoring open when the cylinder stat temperature is turned up and then down when the hive is in a hotwater call mode ? , next I see on the cylinder primary return has a balancing type valve this may need adjusting or even removing as it maybe the problem better to fit a lockshield type gate valve for balancing ? Few thing there for you to consider Margret . Please post your findings regards. kop

Hello King of Pipes, On Friday 26th May 2019, we switched off the immersion and tested with hot water (via the hive using status of 'always on') but to no avail, no hot water. The installer came yesterday (Tuesday 30/04/2019) and looked at the drayton cube and boiler, says can't seem to understand what is the underlying issue. The drayton connected to the hot water pipe next to the hot water cylinder was on 'B' with the black clip at the top lifted upwards.

The two pipes in the kitchen, original newly installed connected the boiler (2 straight - straws) was readjusted to now criss-cross? (see attached photos). Currently, the thermostat attached to the cylinder is set at 70 degrees. Hallway flooring was lifted to find pipe work.

At present, the Central Heating (CH) and Hot Water (HW) are both running, immersion switched off, the drayton valves not attached, all heaters turned down. The hot water pipe in air-cupboard is very hot, and the water is hot.

It seems that when the CH is on together with HW, there is HW and the water flows; but then when the CH is off and HW on only; the hot water reverses flow? Has anyone had this issue before?

Greatly appreciate anyone help?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Riley]

Wow that’s rough

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

You should get whoever installed this back on site. It looks a poor installation from both a design and workmanship perspective.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

You should get whoever installed this back on site. It looks a poor installation from both a design and workmanship perspective.

Is this fixable? All I want is a working functioning HW and CH. Thanks a lot

 

[Riley]

Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over

 

[Margaret T]

Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over

The house was formerly a gravity system (the installer says) and now this has been changed. Previously Omyson (Olympic 20/35B or 38/50B wall mounted gas boiler was attached when the house was built. The whole CH and HW was working perfectly fine for the past 20 years with no issue. We changed for more energy efficient to Valiant ecotec and installer recommended ecotec plus18. Since installation, September 2018, all was working fine (CH+HW) on the schedule set - the installer set everything up and we never changed any settings.
January 2019 there was no hot water and the installer said airlock, back up and running
February 2019 - no hot water and the installer replaced the syncron motor
March 2019 - then advised to leave the immersion on constant
April 2019 - we are the current situation
and readjustment made from 2 straight pipes to now criss-cross

not sure what else do to?

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty).

The crossed pipes are either a sign of poor installation planning or reversing flow / return post installation.

Whatever the issue, it should be corrected by the installer. I woukd strongly advise you to write to the installer, setting out all the issues and give them 30 days to correct the installation. Thereafter ( assuming you are in England /Wales consider taking the case to the small claims court - it will cost you £55, which is refundable when you get an award. If the installer does not respond to the case, judgement will (in 90% of cases) be in your favour. Enforcing a judgement is quite straightforward

Is it fixable, of course it is, the question is always how much will it cost, to identify the issues and then correct them.

Was the engineer who came this week the original installer or a “new” set of eyes?

 

[Burger]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty

I know it could still be wrong but I think the Nest was installed by British Gas. She quotes them on page 3 I think

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty).

The crossed pipes are either a sign of poor installation planning or reversing flow / return post installation.

Whatever the issue, it should be corrected by the installer. I woukd strongly advise you to write to the installer, setting out all the issues and give them 30 days to correct the installation. Thereafter ( assuming you are in England /Wales consider taking the case to the small claims court - it will cost you £55, which is refundable when you get an award. If the installer does not respond to the case, judgement will (in 90% of cases) be in your favour. Enforcing a judgement is quite straightforward

Is it fixable, of course it is, the question is always how much will it cost, to identify the issues and then correct them.

Was the engineer who came this week the original installer or a “new” set of eyes?

Hello Brambles, thanks for your response. Not at all rude, in terms of the sequence of:

January 2019 - no central heating - Air lock identified and said to turn the black switch at times (visit by the original installer)

February 2019 - no central heating + hot water (visit by the original installer and says to keep on constant)

March 2019 -
- beginning of the month - the original installer installed a shower pump
- mid month - no hot water (visit by original installer said small leak changed red valve)

April 2019
no hot water - visit by a valiant engineer (says nothing wrong with boiler and to contact original installer)
reoccurence no HW - visit by British gas (says replaced PCB and not registering demand)
reoccurence no HW - visit by British gas (says checked valves and cyclinder all clear)
30/04/2019 - visit by the original installer and can't seem to get the hot water to work on its own. Works fine when both CH + HW on together. Pipework in the kitchen changed from two straight pipes to now criss-cross. Says the water was reverse flowing before starting and still remains so even after the criss-cross change? No pipework touched in the hallway where the laminate flooring was laid. This was never touched prior to the installation.

The installer tried testing the CH + HW in 'purge' mode? Not sure what that it is and the issue remains present.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Margaret T]

I know it could still be wrong but I think the Nest was installed by British Gas. She quotes them on page 3 I think

The hive was installed by the original installer because it was all part of the package - valiant boiler + Hive. The boiler was first installed - then the hive was set up after by applying the timing Monday - Sunday schedule run. We work 9-5 so the installer set up the settings on hive. Hope this clarifies.