ideal logic plus or ideal vogue

[Jimbob]

Ash, here's my concern.

You need your installer to PROPERLY SIZE the boiler to suit your hot water requirements. It's pointless saying your committing to a logic 30kw boiler if you need a boiler to provide 16l/m. The fact your installer seems to have offered you 3 different boiler sizes OR he's letting you decide, says to me he doesn't know/care about what he's doing.

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

 

[ash121]

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

So am i good to purchase the logic 30 plus? and not have issues with cycling due to modulation?

 

[Ray Stafford]

So am i good to purchase the logic 30 plus? and not have issues with cycling due to modulation?

Yes. However, I would recommend letting your installer buy it and supply it, even if he marks it up a little. Then there is absolutely no question about who is responsible if there are any issues.

If you buy it (saving yourself a couple of quid perhaps) and something later goes wrong - he has the option of saying - "oh, its a warranty matter - call the manufacturer".

 

[ash121]

Yes. However, I would recommend letting your installer buy it and supply it, even if he marks it up a little. Then there is absolutely no question about who is responsible if there are any issues.

If you buy it (saving yourself a couple of quid perhaps) and something later goes wrong - he has the option of saying - "oh, its a warranty matter - call the manufacturer".

Cheers, the plumber does not mind whether i purchase or if he purchases the boiler

The concern i had was whether the logic 30 would be too big for my requirements, as you have assured me i shall not have any issues with cycling/modulation, i shall go ahead and purchase the 30 logic plus and the logic 30 would be fine in future even if we stop using the bath as we will have a shower instead

Although ideally i would want the vogue looks like a great boiler! but cannot afford to push to a 32, i can afford the 26, and is a relatively new boiler on the market

 

[TBServices]

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

I'd never offer a 24 if I knew it to be inadequate for the incoming supply, same with a 30! Nobody wants 14l/m of 25 degree water lol. Besides, the price diff between the 2 is pretty minimal.

 

[Jimbob]

No I think more between the difference between the 24 and 35. As 35 usually entails upsizing gas pipework etc.

You will always get cycling with a combi. They are way over kill for most heating systems they are connected too, even the 24kws. On the viessmann you can turn down the max heating output, not sure if the ideals let you

 

[ash121]

No I think more between the difference between the 24 and 35. As 35 usually entails upsizing gas pipework etc.

You will always get cycling with a combi. They are way over kill for most heating systems they are connected too, even the 24kws. On the viessmann you can turn down the max heating output, not sure if the ideals let you

this is what the manual says...

ideal vogue 26

Central heating (CH) output is fully modulating with a range of:
26 3.7 to 18.0kW (12,800 to 61,400 Btu/h)

Instantaneous domestic hot water (DHW) output is also fully
modulating with a maximum of :
26 26kW (88,700 Btu/h)

ideal logic 24 and 30

Central heating (CH) output is fully modulating with a range of:
24 4.8 to 24.2kW (16,500 to 82,600 Btu/h)
30 6.1 to 24.2kW (20,700 to 82,600 Btu/h)

Instantaneous domestic hot water (DHW) output is also fully
modulating with a maximum of :
24 24.2kW (82,600 Btu/h)
30 30.3kW (103,300 Btu/h)

which boiler do you think i should go for?

 

[Jimbob]

Id go for the logic 30 just for the extra flow rate. The vogue modulation is great but not worth the cost of downsizing from 30-26. A decent room stat and properly balanced heating will help prevent cycling to a certain extent

 

[ash121]

Id go for the logic 30 just for the extra flow rate. The vogue modulation is great but not worth the cost of downsizing from 30-26. A decent room stat and properly balanced heating will help prevent cycling to a certain extent

Thank you! the logic 30 it is then! :stooge_curly:

 

[Ermintrude]

If u get logic 30 buy one of their inbuilt remote control timer stats as although I wouldn't normally advocate built in the ldeal ones come with same warranty as boiler!

 

[Ray Stafford]

Cheers, the plumber does not mind whether i purchase or if he purchases the boiler

What he prefers wasn't really the point of my post.

Its what you prefer, and what is in your best interest.

If you buy the boiler, and he fits it, if the worst happens and there are problems, the you have two different contracts.

Non-plumbing people tend to think about a boiler as if it was a stand-alone item, like a fridge or a washing machine, and that it's warranty can be enforced as a stand-alone thing.

However, your boiler is just one component in the larger system that is your heating and hot water. This creates quite a lot of potential uncertainty if there are problems. Is it a boiler problem? Is it a system problem? Is it a combination of the two?

If your plumber has supplied and fitted, you only have one contract, and it becomes his problem. If you supply and he fits, then you have created a whole new grey area that didn't exist before.

 

[ash121]

What he prefers wasn't really the point of my post.

Its what you prefer, and what is in your best interest.

If you buy the boiler, and he fits it, if the worst happens and there are problems, the you have two different contracts.

Non-plumbing people tend to think about a boiler as if it was a stand-alone item, like a fridge or a washing machine, and that it's warranty can be enforced as a stand-alone thing.

However, your boiler is just one component in the larger system that is your heating and hot water. This creates quite a lot of potential uncertainty if there are problems. Is it a boiler problem? Is it a system problem? Is it a combination of the two?

If your plumber has supplied and fitted, you only have one contract, and it becomes his problem. If you supply and he fits, then you have created a whole new grey area that didn't exist before.

I understand your point, I shall discuss this with the installer, cheers

 

[ash121]

If u get logic 30 buy one of their inbuilt remote control timer stats as although I wouldn't normally advocate built in the ldeal ones come with same warranty as boiler!

We shall be purchasing the honeywell cm927 thermostat

 

[ash121]

Forgot to mention, Not sure if it is relevant or will cause problems with the boiler..

the kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms have microbore pipework for the CH and the 2 living rooms are 15mm pipework

Will this be an issue for the boiler in any way?

the plan in the future is to upgrade the pipework to 15mm

 

[Ermintrude]

We shall be purchasing the honeywell cm927 thermostat

I would buy two as the first one will be broken in 3 - 5 years!

 

[ash121]

I would buy two as the first one will be broken in 3 - 5 years!

Why? is there a problem with them?

 

[Ermintrude]

Many people will swear blind they are the dogs, but I had a spate about 4 weeks ago where I changed 7 or 8 in about 3 days. All with dead or dying screens. Get a few here and there. Siemens is a guaranteed event every 2.5 to 3 years. Manufacturers gear is their problem
And has a full warranty it's a bit like you buying and him fitting. If it's all in the boiler it's all ideals problem.

 

[ash121]

Many people will swear blind they are the dogs, but I had a spate about 4 weeks ago where I changed 7 or 8 in about 3 days. All with dead or dying screens. Get a few here and there. Siemens is a guaranteed event every 2.5 to 3 years. Manufacturers gear is their problem
And has a full warranty it's a bit like you buying and him fitting. If it's all in the boiler it's all ideals problem.

True say the cm927 looks like a great unit, will consider fitting the inbuilt timer...

as some of my pipework is microbore will that be a problem for the boiler?

Forgot to mention, Not sure if it is relevant or will cause problems with the boiler..

the kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms have microbore pipework for the CH and the 2 living rooms are 15mm pipework

Will this be an issue for the boiler in any way?

the plan in the future is to upgrade the pipework to 15mm

 

[Ermintrude]

Fit a magnetic filter ( my pref is Mmagnaclean) there is absolutely no need to change micro-bore. Save your money for a holiday or something u actually need or want, not what some blabber said u need!

 

[ash121]

Fit a magnetic filter ( my pref is Mmagnaclean) there is absolutely no need to change micro-bore. Save your money for a holiday or something u actually need or want, not what some blabber said u need!

Cheers, was considering a magnetic filter too though the trappex centramag rather than the magnaclean

 

[Jimbob]

Cheers, was considering a magnetic filter too though the trappex centramag rather than the magnaclean

My preference is also Magnaclean pro 2, they seem to pick up a lot more in my experience

 

[TBServices]

Magnaclean Pro 2 is better value than trappex if bought as the chemical pack IMHO.

Easier to fit and better quality.

 

[ash121]

Magnaclean Pro 2 is better value than trappex if bought as the chemical pack IMHO.

Easier to fit and better quality.

As there are so many different magnetic filters out there, is the magnaclean pro 2 the best out there currently on the market?

 

[TBServices]

As there are so many different magnetic filters out there, is the magnaclean pro 2 the best out there currently on the market?

In my opinion yes. That said, that has a lot to do with how easy and well thought out it is for the installer.

 

[Tizak]

Could anyone give me an update as to how they are finding the Ideal Vogue and whether you think it is worth the extra few hundred more than the Logic 30KW. I am looking at having one of these two fitted but am a bit unsure as to which is the best.:dizzy2: Thanks in advance.