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MCS Accreditation

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Discuss MCS Accreditation in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums

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unguided1 said:
Despite what anyone else says denying it, this is infact completley true
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Just to clarify this is in fact not true as you have to show competency on the technology you are installing and on a technology like heat pumps this includes qualifications like G3 regs etc.
 
dontknowitall said:
Thank you for that info. I'm still a little confused though!




It seems now that the setup costs are £1,200 and ongoing £550 instead of me thinking it was £1,100 and £400. This, though doesn't include the course costs of £300 each (which is where my £2,100 came from). REAL's subscription for 1-6 employees is £220. So total for the first year is now £1,200 plus £400, plus £220, plus £300, plus £300 equalling £2,420. Hopefully that's including VAT because if not then we're talking about £2,904.

The last part of my quote was asking if there are other costs. There's Gassafe for gas, OFTEC for oil and HETAS for solid fuel. These bodies have inspectors to ensure the standards are maintained by the installers.

Who is the renewables industry "policed" by? Is it the local council or someone else? Is it REAL?

Looking on REAL's website there's an audit form of 10 pages of questions. One question (picked at random) is:

Is a record systematically kept of time spent in a consumer’s premises? If this exceeds two hours, is the reason for this recorded and correlated with the record of any requests to cancel the contract?


Is this the same as the MCS QMS? And if so, do we have to do both?

Once again, I'm sorry, but I'm becoming really confused now!!

Finally, are these the ONLY costs? Does this price mean that I can LEGALLY sign off work and my customers can benefit from the feed-in-tarriff or whatever government grant systems there are? Do I have to re-train every so many years?
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Hi Unguided,

The point i was making was that it isn't £1,100 for your QMS it is £495 then you have you assessment fee from someone like CORGI or NICEIC or NAPIT which depending on who you go with is around £550.

In terms of the consumer code REAL are the one for the renewables industry and meeting the regulations of the REAL code is usually covered within your QMS.

Once you have MCS Certification your customers can benefit, you dont need to retrain but your yearly payment is for an annual audit where the assessing body will inspect you each year.
 
SimonG said:
Don't understand your comments re people adopting systems. Surely the services you would offer would come from your own template that you are selling to companies/individuals after fine tuning. Surely the inspecting bodies would also like some sort of commonality to make their jobs easier.
If I remember back to the company I served my time with, when they went down the Quality Assured route it was basically a set of 15 files for each contract. The auditors wanted commanality.
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The difference between an MCS QMS and ISO9001 QMS is the fact that the system has to be bespoke to the technologies you are installing and how your company operates internally and externally, the assessors want to see that the QMS has been designed around your company, not a set of templates. We see alot of installers who have tried to adopt template systems who end up failing and having to pay for another inspection.
 
markfxy said:
surely most companies operate in much the same way therefore what works for one will work for all. the paper trail is much the same as bsi 9001 quality control if you use that system you shouldn't have any problems with mcs.

The thing that pi***s me off is you dont need any plumbing qualifications to be registered as an installer for any renewables so how can mcs be a guarantee of a quality installation when the installer might be good at paperwork but not have a clue about installation.
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We also offer support on achieving ISO standards including 9001 and upwards. Please be aware that many organisations and installers try to achieve MCS Certification using an existing or new ISO9001 system which is no where near the standards, requirements or procedures required for MCS and many end up having to pay for another inspection.
 
So if competent in the technologies why do we need a qms, at great expense. Just smacks of a very good idea as far as the renewables go but then the government thinks how can we get some money back for all that we will have to pay out and hey presto we have this system.
 
The QMS is designed to ensure your company has the structure in place to offer these technologies, install them following the correct regulations and provides protection to you, the consumer and the government. The scheme is designed to show that installers who are on it not only install to a minimum quality but the company itself has minimum standards in place.
 
EasyMCSLtd said:
The QMS is designed to ensure your company has the structure in place to offer these technologies, install them following the correct regulations and provides protection to you, the consumer and the government. The scheme is designed to show that installers who are on it not only install to a minimum quality but the company itself has minimum standards in place.
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I can do the bits in red without MCS, and as far as quality goes "if its not good enough for my house its not good enough for a cust" a qms has nothing to do with an "install". You could do the same thing with a check list:- Are you using upto the minute data, have you notified BC 48 hrs prior to install (unvented element) etc etc.
 
ecowarm said:
All that sex and ****! how do you have time to eat!

I am from the writting on the back of bit of paper old reciepts anything that comes to hand realy, but it is not up to MCS standard. I know what Im suppost to do if I get an enquiry, I have enquiry forms to fill in, all the customer details inc. post code, email address, time and date of call etc, etc.

The lady that is trying to get me sorted for Mcs certification tears her hair out when i give her a bit of paper from the floor of me van and it says "Bill 01********** heat pump/ solar" but I will get there eventually......
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Hi Eco
to be honest I have done loads of sign offs and when you go onto the MCS website all you have to do is
Page 1
customers name
email address
date of commision
technology type
product
Post code

Page2
is to fill out the customers address
Page 3
is to mark if its a new installation or not
then page 4
Kwh usage
and thats it

In the meantime you have to keep a fileing cabinet of paperwork for every phone call, every quote, every email. I trained as a heating engineer not as a secretary (although I do have nice legs) and I feel that the MCS is completly overboard, As I understand it you have keep all correspondance even if you dont get the job!!!! Yes we all do a certain amount of paperwork but not to this extreme, All I can say is I am making a big fuss about this but just wait until Gas Safe go down this route because I bet it wont be long
 
EasyMCSLtd said:
Just to clarify this is in fact not true as you have to show competency on the technology you are installing and on a technology like heat pumps this includes qualifications like G3 regs etc.
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Technically you are right but as I have stated before when beaurocrats are involved they leave huge gaps, So I maintain that you can get MCS without ever having lifted as much as a plunger to unblock a bog
 
EasyMCSLtd said:
Just to clarify this is in fact not true as you have to show competency on the technology you are installing and on a technology like heat pumps this includes qualifications like G3 regs etc.
Click to expand...

Your clarification is correct but in the world of beaurocrats the reality of the situation is completly different and there are people out there who I wouldnt let loose withn a bog plunger running MCS companies
 
EasyMCSLtd said:
Hi Unguided,

The point i was making was that it isn't £1,100 for your QMS it is £495 then you have you assessment fee from someone like CORGI or NICEIC or NAPIT which depending on who you go with is around £550.

In terms of the consumer code REAL are the one for the renewables industry and meeting the regulations of the REAL code is usually covered within your QMS.

Once you have MCS Certification your customers can benefit, you dont need to retrain but your yearly payment is for an annual audit where the assessing body will inspect you each year.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that.

So the maths for the set up is now:

MCS QMS £495
OFTEC Assessment Fee £550 (assuming OFTEC does this scheme too and assuming that's the cost)
Solar Thermal course £300
Photovoltaic course £300
REAL sub £220

TOTAL £1,865
plus vat £373

Setup TOTAL £2,238

On-going/annual costs:

REAL £220
MSC audit £400
OFTEC £150 ??? I can't see this being free!

So, minimum of £924 including vat per year.

Or am I still wrong?
 
Having G3 or cps card in solar or heat pumps doesn't mean your competent it only proves you've paid for training and an assessment which is impossible to fail
I sat my G3 and BPEC solar with a Fireman Taxi driver and Double glazing salesman they all passed with flying colours are you saying they now qualified to install renewables without any knowledge or experience of plumbing.
 
Doesn't look at all one-man-band friendly to me. And the cost of the training!!!!

Too much waffle and turned me off.
 
might even do it meself £325 including lunch, coffee, and a manual, £299 if I book early BONUS and only just down the road too.
 
Coffee costs £325 but the lunch and training is free ... and those front photos. How many plumbers wear suits to training courses?

[Edit] PROPER plumbers.
 
Like the fact that you will have a template for creating your own QMS. Appreciate your still going to have to put some effort in but looks good. They just need to get one a lot further north!
 
I think there is more money to be made offering training courses than actually being MCS certified
 
EasyMCSLtd said:
Hi Guys,

The MCS Inspection itself is split between Installations, Competency and Paperwork. The installation needs to be up to the MCS Standards, and the installer needs to be able to prove they are competent to install the equipment. With regards to the paperwork, the paperwork brings the installer into line in terms of functioning to MCS Standards and maintaining a minimum level of quality in the processes they work to. This not only protects the consumer and the government (who's funding they are distributing) but also protects the installer and allows the installer to grow to new levels as they now have the basis to grow into a more structured and successful organisation (if they aren't already). The important aspect for the paperwork is protection, the paperwork has to be followed to pass MCS any deviation wont pass, and by sticking to the paperwork involved and meeting the MCS Regulations it is near impossible to rip of "Mrs Smith" and for "Mrs Smith" to come back at the Installer.

The Quality Systems involved in the MCS Scheme are 99% of the time a structure which takes an installer to the next level and many of the installers we speak to realise how useful the systems are once they have passed.

When the MCS Inspector initially inspects you they would expect you to be competent as an Installer going off your qualifications and Installations. Once your yearly audit comes around this will be far more installation based as they will expect to see a number of installations and often send a technical inspector to perform this audit.

Any more questions feel free.
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I read somewhre I think it was the gas sae mag that the paperwork takes a full day to complete is this the sort of paperwork that is required? seems a bit ott if you ask me.
I also dont think there is enough people wanting this done to merit me paying out money to get this qualification at this moment in time.
 
Gas safe is under review at the moment and I bet that when they have finnished theyre consultations that they have got to do, they will roll somthing out something similar to this.

I know I keep bleating on but just wait until the whole industry has to go through this farce
 
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