Not Happy with the eye's in the sky !!

[chris watkins]

Like all businesses these days it is all about managing the risks, if there is a real threat of prosecution / claim from people receiving advice on here that can not be protected buy disclaimer or insurance then we might as well all pack up now & close it all down.
If there is a risk of a claim on the GS side then it will be the same across all the other forums & as my name is up there & I am not that difficult to find I think I might stop posting !!!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Like all businesses these days it is all about managing the risks, if there is a real threat of prosecution / claim from people receiving advice on here that can not be protected buy disclaimer or insurance then we might as well all pack up now & close it all down.
If there is a risk of a claim on the GS side then it will be the same across all the other forums & as my name is up there & I am not that difficult to find I think I might stop posting !!!

be careful what you post gas safe sponsor us,finding you is much easier than you think you have a ip address a registered phone line) if someone died as a direct result of advice given on this forum what would you tell the prosecutor if your name was in the frame?this is why we close threads that contain such posts if you want to talk gas join the appropriate forum

 

[Keefy]

Just add a bit more info in the subtext under 'Central Heating Forum' on the main board explaining what advice you can and cannot expect to be given. If a new thread looks like it's heading towards a potential DIY no-no then anyone can just quote or link to the guidelines in the subtext.

If they get in a hissy fit about it then it'll be there problem for not reading it first. Doesn't matter what you name a forum category there's always going to be the demanding type who rush straight in. It's just one of those inevitable things that can't be 100% controlled.

 

[Ray Stafford]

You can worry too much about these things.

For all the urban myths about people suing for this or that, does anyone know of a single case of such litigation?

I suggest asking Dan what his position is. As the forum publisher he is probably at greatest risk, although to be honest, I would evaluate that risk as being vanishingly small.

Use common sense, don't encourage people to tackle dangerous things, be aware that the thread may be read by a muppet in 2 years time, but don't overreact.

In another part of my life, I have to give safety advice in a sport where people are trying to hit each other. We had a similar liability panic a few years ago, and we disappeared up our own backsides. Then we did some rational risk analysis, and realised that the biggest cause of injury was still the same as it always had been. And that injury cause was failure to warm up before a bout, causing muscle strain. We spent all that time worrying about something that never happened, and ignored the low level thing that really happenend every day.

 

[hammers4spanner]

If gas safe sponsor this forum then i presume they get full access ? do they give any input to the mods??
Being nosey now lol

 

[Barry98]

You can worry too much about these things.

For all the urban myths about people suing for this or that, does anyone know of a single case of such litigation?

I suggest asking Dan what his position is. As the forum publisher he is probably at greatest risk, although to be honest, I would evaluate that risk as being vanishingly small.

Use common sense, don't encourage people to tackle dangerous things, be aware that the thread may be read by a muppet in 2 years time, but don't overreact.

In another part of my life, I have to give safety advice in a sport where people are trying to hit each other. We had a similar liability panic a few years ago, and we disappeared up our own backsides. Then we did some rational risk analysis, and realised that the biggest cause of injury was still the same as it always had been. And that injury cause was failure to warm up before a bout, causing muscle strain. We spent all that time worrying about something that never happened, and ignored the low level thing that really happenend every day.

I know of it on another forum about 3 years back , not gas but similar gyst

 

[Barry98]

If gas safe sponsor this forum then i presume they get full access ? do they give any input to the mods??
Being nosey now lol

NO and they can't see in the arms either hammer

 

[Dotty]

Unfortunately we're living in an increasingly more litigious society. It may never happen, i hope it doesn't, but the possibility is always there that a fatality could happen and this forum and it's members be blamed.

All we can really do is try to keep the forums as safe for you without compromising the advice being given.

Don't know about you lot but Mama Croppie's little soldier is far too pretty to be lifting the soap in the shower for Mr Big!

 

[Ray Stafford]

I know of it on another forum about 3 years back , not gas but similar gyst

What happened in that case bod?

 

[Barry98]

Can't remember fully , am looking for it now ill put a link up

 

[mountainman]

i dunno Croppie,
its always gonna be a grey area between sensible advice and poor advice.
i'm pleased that you are a mod cos you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

 

[chris watkins]

be careful what you post gas safe sponsor us,finding you is much easier than you think you have a ip address a registered phone line) if someone died as a direct result of advice given on this forum what would you tell the prosecutor if your name was in the frame?this is why we close threads that contain such posts if you want to talk gas join the appropriate forum

Well if asked, of course, I would tell them that when I joined this forum there was no warning or indication that if wrong or in correct information given by me, could come back & bite me on the bum & as such I would be issuing a counter claim against this forum for not protecting my interest while I was giving away free information.
As for GSR that is one of my problems when you get vested interests involved ! as it is run by a private company with there own interest in maintaining a close shop I will alway be suspicious when they are telling me what I can & can't do.

 

[Ray Stafford]

We have a similar situation in health and safety issues. All of us who employ people can be picking up the soap with croppie for something that we had nothing to do with, if a court decides we didn't do enough to anticipate and prevent it.

The only way to be 100% safe is to shut your business down. Since that is impractical, you set some basic rules, write them down, and set up a system or two to monitor. Then you stop worrying and get on with it.

 

[AWheating]

I have seen many boiler cases left ill fitted by sparkys, screws missing etc.... so i totally understand the stance of only gsr engineers should remove a case. You also have to question any gas safe engineer who leaves the gas onto an unwired (uncommissioned) boiler so the sparks can fire it up when hes done . It is afterall the sparks thats breaking the gas regs when he/she removes the case, but then most sparks dont know there own regs.

I like worcester idea of sticking a flying lead on the boiler and there new compact has been designed so you can wire it with the case on. Maybe the way forward for all.

 

[chris watkins]

I have seen many boiler cases left ill fitted by sparkys, screws missing etc.... so i totally understand the stance of only gsr engineers should remove a case. You also have to question any gas safe engineer who leaves the gas onto an unwired (uncommissioned) boiler so the sparks can fire it up when hes done . It is afterall the sparks thats breaking the gas regs when he/she removes the case, but then most sparks dont know there own regs.

I like worcester idea of sticking a flying lead on the boiler and there new compact has been designed so you can wire it with the case on. Maybe the way forward for all.

Think you will find it is the person who connected the gas to the appliance that broke the Law not the block that turned it on what was that about not knowing the reg's ? Very sorry AW opened yourself for that one LOL

 

[AWheating]

i dont get you, they would be both breaking the law?

 

[jtsplumbing]

This is somewhat a bit of a gray area, most new boilers the outer case is just that ! just somthing to look nice, with the combustion chamber sealed inside, according to what GS told me just B4 Xmas a sparks can remove the outer case to gain access to the wireing terminal as long as no seals are disturbed he can also replace the built in time controls, and that is all he is allowed to do ! can-not replace any fuses on the PCB as this is to do with the opperation of the boiler, Proberly ring next week and get told somthing differant.

 

[chris watkins]

i dont get you, they would be both breaking the law?

As soon as the gas connection is made the appliance must be commissioned, you can not leave any gas appliance connected to a gas supply that can not work correctly. Therefore the GSR engineer who connected the gas broke the Law. That is why it is in the regs to prevent the spark from being able to turn on an un-commissioned appliance.

 

[dancinplumba]

job am on now, boiler has flying lead, there is no fused spur, house getting rewire. Will put plug on and plug into extension lead, commission boiler remove plug and then sparks comes in and connects to new fused spur he has installed. if he needs to wire in timer and stats etc he carnt remove cover.

 

[AWheating]

that what i said, did you not see the sad face? in my post.

i was merly refering to the sparks and the fact they must comply to the gas regs like everyone else, so if he/she removed the case and then turn on they have broken the regs, to a lesser degree i guess but still dont hold up in court.

Trust me you dont need to tell me the regs about uncommission appliances ive seen enough dangerous situations left by idiots while onsite, thats why i have tons of those uncommission appliance lables on me van along with about 50 meter blanks, you tend to build them up when working on voids over the years.

 

[Rickster123]

I do miss reading the threads of DIY gas repairs. But totally understand the reasons for the closed threads. I think a bigger message before you can access the forum would help. I rarely read the blurb at the top of the screen.

 

[AWheating]

it always makes me laugh when one trade says another trades regulations have nothing to do with them. If you make a hole through a wall you must know the regs on fire ratings wether your a builder,plumber or painter.

 

[mountainman]

it always makes me laugh when one trade says another trades regulations have nothing to do with them. If you make a hole through a wall you must know the regs on fire ratings wether your a builder,plumber or painter.

Mushroom fertiliser in my opinion.

 

[REDSAW]

can anyone show me evidence for someone doing time for working on household electrics?
is it enforceable or only if some one gets hurt?
no one will goto prison for working on electrics!

if you kill some one then it will be treated no different to someone driving without a licence.

if you work on gas ilegaly then you will.

to wire a boiler you are deemed to be working on a gas appliance, no grey area about it.
to touch the workings of the boiler upwards of from where the pipes enter it..you are working on a gas appliance.

to run a wire, then yeh! sue me. not!!

just a blunt view of it.imo

 

[hammers4spanner]

I dont see any grey area in it at all anything boiler related is gas works imo end of .

I dont see what the arguement is about on here to be honest from what i gather chris is saying that he wants to give someone advice on working on gas appliances which either A the person is working illegally or B the person is deemed not competant to work on a gas appliance .

ok we all dont know everything but if i was a mechanic i wouldnt encourage someone who is unsure about how to repair their brakes same principle with gas imho.

On a personal note if i am unsure about a repair then i wont do it i will pass it to a friend get someone more experieced in repairs to tackle the job , surely thats the same in recommending a gsr in for the public meaning a competant experienced person .