Not Happy with the eye's in the sky !!

[chris watkins]

I dont see any grey area in it at all anything boiler related is gas works imo end of .

I dont see what the arguement is about on here to be honest from what i gather chris is saying that he wants to give someone advice on working on gas appliances which either A the person is working illegally or B the person is deemed not competant to work on a gas appliance .

ok we all dont know everything but if i was a mechanic i wouldnt encourage someone who is unsure about how to repair their brakes same principle with gas imho.

On a personal note if i am unsure about a repair then i wont do it i will pass it to a friend get someone more experieced in repairs to tackle the job , surely thats the same in recommending a gsr in for the public meaning a competant experienced person .

Please don't put words into my mouth ! The OP was asking why a thread was being pulled & had nothing to do with the right's & wrong's of the advice being given most of which did not even involve me.
I often get shot down in flames on here when I suggest that just maybe there should be restrictions on who should be aloud to practice plumbing & yet here we are with a lot of the same people wanting a complete close shop around this area. Like it or not there are some grey areas (central heating controls problems after commissioning) I am just asking if we are over stepping the mark & should we just blindly take the work of GS who have a vested interest in this close shop they are not & do not make the Law & as ever it is open to question.

 

[Guest123]

This thread has produced several good suggestions on how to improve things for the forum in general. Can I ask that if anyone has a suggestion that they'd like to make to help improve the forum, that they contact the moderators direct. No reasonable suggestion will ever be ignored and we'll discuss it and see what we can do. We'll also email you about the progress of your suggestion.

We're all "singing from the same hymn sheet" and want the forum to continually improve for the benefit of it's members.

 

[dancinplumba]

This is somewhat a bit of a gray area, most new boilers the outer case is just that ! just somthing to look nice, with the combustion chamber sealed inside, according to what GS told me just B4 Xmas a sparks can remove the outer case to gain access to the wireing terminal as long as no seals are disturbed he can also replace the built in time controls, and that is all he is allowed to do ! can-not replace any fuses on the PCB as this is to do with the opperation of the boiler, Proberly ring next week and get told somthing differant.

the outer case on most modern boilers is part of the air supply to combustion chamber. If its not put back correctly then combustion is directly affected

 

[chris watkins]

the outer case on most modern boilers is part of the air supply to combustion chamber. If its not put back correctly then combustion is directly affected

Not true, combustion is not affected they are built & designed to be intrinsically safe & as you know can be run with the casing off if required.

 

[dancinplumba]

Not true, combustion is not affected they are built & designed to be intrinsically safe & as you know can be run with the casing off if required.

the co co2 and o2 is affected

 

[chris watkins]

Is it un-safe to run them without the casing in place ??

 

[Rickster123]

Is it un-safe to run them without the casing in place ??

Only if you're standing in a bucket of water with your tongue on the pcb!

 

[AWheating]

Is it un-safe to run them without the casing in place ??

yes, if the boiler has a fault.

 

[R1CKY]

Is it un-safe to run them without the casing in place ??

It could become unsafe and it wouldn't be a room sealed boiler anymore.

Most modern condensing boilers have a burner which is under positive pressure. Now if a burner seal was to fail, products of combustion would be entering the room if the case was removed. With the case in place, the products would be contained inside the boiler casing.

Lots of Baxis, Vaillants and Glow Worms have had issues with burner seals failing, I wouldn't like that to happen and have the case removed!

 

[chris watkins]

So what sort of PPE do you guys have to use while you work on such dangerous pieces of equipment ? What is it breathing equipment, CO alarms, heat proof gloves not to mention the heat proof visor just incase the door seal goes when you are having a look. Your risk assessments & method statements must be a nightmare to write. I can understand why there is such a premium paid to GS engineers now it really danger money. :hand:

Come on, you are talking to one of your own now, not a customer. I know my way around a boiler & I am not suggesting that the casing be left off when in normal operation.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

It could become unsafe and it wouldn't be a room sealed boiler anymore.

Most modern condensing boilers have a burner which is under positive pressure. Now if a burner seal was to fail, products of combustion would be entering the room if the case was removed. With the case in place, the products would be contained inside the boiler casing.

Lots of Baxis, Vaillants and Glow Worms have had issues with burner seals failing, I wouldn't like that to happen and have the case removed!

baxi have never had one fail on a duotec what model are you referring to ricky?

 

[dancinplumba]

So what sort of PPE do you guys have to use while you work on such dangerous pieces of equipment ? What is it breathing equipment, CO alarms, heat proof gloves not to mention the heat proof visor just incase the door seal goes when you are having a look. Your risk assessments & method statements must be a nightmare to write. I can understand why there is such a premium paid to GS engineers now it really danger money. :hand:

Come on, you are talking to one of your own now, not a customer. I know my way around a boiler & I am not suggesting that the casing be left off when in normal operation.

well, if you were one of us you would know

 

[zeebeedee]

So what sort of PPE do you guys have to use while you work on such dangerous pieces of equipment ? What is it breathing equipment, CO alarms, heat proof gloves not to mention the heat proof visor just incase the door seal goes when you are having a look. Your risk assessments & method statements must be a nightmare to write. I can understand why there is such a premium paid to GS engineers now it really danger money. :hand:

Come on, you are talking to one of your own now, not a customer. I know my way around a boiler & I am not suggesting that the casing be left off when in normal operation.

So your working on boilers unregistered?

 

[R1CKY]

baxi have never had one fail on a duotec what model are you referring to ricky?

Older Baxi models, with the red burner seals that go powdery.

 

[chris watkins]

It could become unsafe and it wouldn't be a room sealed boiler anymore.

Most modern condensing boilers have a burner which is under positive pressure. Now if a burner seal was to fail, products of combustion would be entering the room if the case was removed. With the case in place, the products would be contained inside the boiler casing.

Lots of Baxis, Vaillants and Glow Worms have had issues with burner seals failing, I wouldn't like that to happen and have the case removed!

Ok R1ck, dancin, steveb, & Leo can you tell me the difference in practical operational terms what the difference is between a boiler,oh, lets say a Viessmann Vitodens 100 or 200 W (standard enough boilers, yes ?) running case off & one being installed with an open flue vertical flue kit where it draws it's its air from the room ??? No ? not installed one ? well very handy to know if you are stuck with replacing an old open flued boiler with no horizontal flueing routes, worth a look ! Page 23 [DLMURL]http://www.viessmann.co.uk/content/dam/internet_uk/literature_new_website/dpg_sep2012_4web.pdf[/DLMURL]

 

[chris watkins]

So your working on boilers unregistered?

Only my own, the rest I leave for others to get there hands dirt on. (I am competent CCN1 + just not GSR)

 

[CES]

Perhaps someones pulling some folks chain on here...:lol:

Meet The Vaillant Team Contact us

 

[CES]

I take it thats you Chris?

 

[villa_tom]

No point in falling out over this lads. People will always have different views. It's better when everyone doesn't agree anyway it'd be boring if we agreed on everything all of the time.

Chill man

 

[Leo21]

Can't be rsed to read it, I don't fit veisman. But on the mi.s of the boilers I fit, it says competent person all over it. Which isn't a sparky or a customer, although I do agree taking a case of in itself is not dangerous. They don't know that, and if you say "oh that's ok" where does it stop. Fiddling round inside, changing components etc etc.

 

[dancinplumba]

Ok R1ck, dancin, steveb, & Leo can you tell me the difference in practical operational terms what the difference is between a boiler,oh, lets say a Viessmann Vitodens 100 or 200 W (standard enough boilers, yes ?) running case off & one being installed with an open flue vertical flue kit where it draws it's its air from the room ??? No ? not installed one ? well very handy to know if you are stuck with replacing an old open flued boiler with no horizontal flueing routes, worth a look ! Page 23 [DLMURL]http://www.viessmann.co.uk/content/dam/internet_uk/literature_new_website/dpg_sep2012_4web.pdf[/DLMURL]

Ok Watkins' case off/open flue, potential flue gases into room. case on, flue gasses outside, no one dies

 

[chris watkins]

I take it thats you Chris?

No, I don't recognise that fat bugger, never seen him before in my life. There must be a few chris watkins out there or he is masquerading as me one of the two. :innocent:

 

[R1CKY]

That is handy to know! But I'd imagine (or at least hope) that the burner, being positive pressure, would still be encased inside a sealed chamber, with the air supply being drawn in under negative pressure, so if there was combustion leak it would be very difficult for POCs to escape in to the room. Plus not forgetting that an open flued boiler would have permanent ventilation provided.

 

[chris watkins]

Ok Watkins' case off/open flue, potential flue gases into room. case on, flue gasses outside, no one dies

Have a look they can be installed as an open fan flued boiler i.e they draw there air from the room not from outside !

 

[dancinplumba]

Have a look they can be installed as an open fan flued boiler i.e they draw there air from the room not from outside !

they are operating as open flue and the room must have correct ventilation